Vintage Road Race Digest #41-50



VintRR-digest           Monday, May 26 1997           Volume 01 : Number 041




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Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:53:49 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR "New" Laverda SFC 750

The May 14 issue of Motor Cycle News has a small article about a UK 
firm that is making "new" SFCs.

The London company Palmelli Motorcycles (01885 410295) is importing 
SF Laverdas and using their wheels, forks, brakes and engines with 
new replica frames and body work constructed in Britain.  The bikes 
are to sell for stlg7950.

The article also says "the original machines suffered bad vibration, 
but this has been stopped by converting the 360 degree crankshaft to 
90 degrees".

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:18:59 -0400
From: Chris Stein 
Subject: VintRR Fun Questions

Two questions - resulting from cocktail party benchracing: 

1. Do you assemble your racebike and then safety wire everything or
do    you safety wire each part as you install it? As a "wire each part
as    it's installed" kind of guy, I seem to be greatly in the minority.

2. We all know arrogant or unpleasant racers whose behavior is         
excused by others as a result of their superior racing talent. Should   
these allowances be made, especially since vintage racing is "for      
fun"? The answer's probably "NO", but we still do it!


Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:53:25 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Fun Questions

> 1. Do you assemble your racebike and then safety wire everything or
> do you safety wire each part as you install it?

Hello Chris,

I think I tend to do major assemblies as they are put together, with 
some individual items done if the later installation of another part 
will block access.  The wire as you go is probably best if you can do 
it, as you should then get everything wired with nothing being left 
out.  Then again, if you have a checklist to work from the latter 
isn't a problem.

> 2. We all know arrogant or unpleasant racers whose behavior is         
> excused by others as a result of their superior racing talent. Should   
> these allowances be made, especially since vintage racing is "for      
> fun"? The answer's probably "NO", but we still do it!

I certainly don't do it, and would think that anyone who does 
probably needs to go and sit down and think for about it for a while. 
Then again, I've never had much of an understanding of the "star 
struck".

A jerk is a jerk, and fast or slow shouldn't make a difference.  On 
the otherhand, a fast jerk may provide more entertainment if you can 
bait him/her, get in their way, and generally be a big jerk back 
(whoops, that may be the big problem).

I'm much more prone to help out a friendly person than the opposite, 
which I think is the case with most people.

Luckily, the vintage movement seems to have a pretty low proportion 
of jerks in it.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:10:04 +0930 (CST)
From: millett@camtech.net.au (F + A Millett)
Subject: VintRR Ducati 350 - Roll Pins

Hi all,

I have a minor problem - ROLL-PINS.

Can anyone advise me the best way to remove these?  I have a small roll-pin
which holds the tacho drive into the bevel cover on my 350 single.  Normally
I wouldn't bother about removing said item but as the tach drive seems to
have lost it's o-ring - my right boot get a 'little' oily!!

I can't get enough purchase on the roll-pin to squeeze it together to remove
it.  Being hardened steel, it doesn't like drill bits either - or I should
say the drill bits don't like it!

HELP!!

Thanks a mil'.

Alec.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:02:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elin Phinizy 
Subject: VintRR U.S. Vintage Grand Prix

IF YOU ARE COMING TO LOUDON FOR RACE WEEK:

On ***Sunday***, June 8th, 1997:
	For the first time open to the public, the USCRA and Gunstock Ski
Lodge are honoring former Harly-Davidson factory rider, multi-time Daytona
200 winner (1938, 1939) and New England champion, Ben Campanale with a
Racing celebrities Bar-B-Que. Also in attendance will be Jim Davis the
legendary 102 year old board track racer, along with other national and New
England racers and champions, such as Dick Klamfort, Ed Fisher, Ed Kretz,
Jr., Sid Swann, Nate Sheldon, Harold Boyajian, Dick Carey....
	After a 35 year absence form the Gunstock Ski Area Lodge, the
riders return to the historic lodge... hub of the old "Laconia" races for a
gala BBQ, Good Time, displays and signing of memorabilia, and super door
prizes. Meet the men that made it happen. The Public is Welcome!!

*** Please RESERVE NOW, DEADLINE IS JUNE 1, 1997***
Advanced ticket sales only, limited seating. Super BBQ Party
                 ***** ONLY $13.00 per person*****

Call >>>> 1-800-486-7862 Ext. 191 <<<< (Gunstock Ski Lodge, Reservations)

On  ***Monday of Race Week*** at New Hampshire International Speedway:

	         * BEN CAMPANELE*
       RETURNS FOR THE A.M.A. SANCTIONED
	* U. S. VINTAGE GRAND PRIX *

	 Legendary Harley-Davidson factory rider and TWO TIME DAYTONA
winner Ben Campanele returns to Rally/Race week for the * UNITED STATES
VINTAGE GRAND PRIX * at New Hampshire International Speedway on June 9,
1997.
	 Ben, a native of Worcester, Massachusetts, now living in
California, was one of the greatest AMAriders of the 30's and 40's. He was
famous in the Northeast for his ability to win at roadracing, hill
climbing, TT racing, and dirt track. With his Harley-Davidson Team rider,
Babe Tancrede, he stormed many of the forgotten tracks like Keene and
Athol. Possibly his most noteworthy National accomplishment waswinning the
prestigious Daytona Beach races in 1938 and 1939. It took iron men with
tremendous skill to wrestle the evil handling bikes on the beach and sand
covered asphalt of the old Daytona event. Benalso enjoyed great success in
front of his home fans at the old "Laconia Nationals" held at the Belknap
Recreational Area in Guilford, New Hampshire.
	Ben will return for the * UNITED STATES VINTAGE GRAND PRIX * to be
honored for his outstanding racing accomplishments. He will be available to
sign memorabilia and talk to old/new friends. Additionally, he will lead
the Lap of Honor around the twisty New Hampshire International Speedway
race track for the Gypsy Tour participants. Monday's Gypsy Tour will once
again make NHIS and the * UNITED STATES VINTAGE GRAND PRIX * their ride
destination.
   	 Previous attendees have been racing legends Gary Nixon,  the late
Roger Reiman, Jody Nichols, Don Emde, Ed Fisher, Kurt Liebman, Jack
Canfield, Dick Carey, Joe Bolger, Whitey Anderson, Butch Baer, Nate
Sheldon, and others.There may be some surprises in store for Ben and the
attendees. You just never know who might show up.
	The day is packed with over 15 vintage races including the NORTH
AMERICAN VINTAGE SIDECAR Championships and the first round of the American
vs. Canadian Vintage Challenge Series.
	The sound of unmuffled vintage racers will fill the air as these
old gems race head to head at full song the way the did in the past.
Norton, BSA, Triumph, Harley-Davidson, Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki,
Yamaha, Vincent, Indian, Gilera.
	Also featured at the * UNITED STATES VINTAGE GRAND PRIX * will be a
national round of the RD Challenge Series devoted strictly to the RD
Yamahas and North America's first *** 50cc Vintage Grand Prix***.
	Rounding out the action packed day will be the third gathering of
the REUNION RIDERS. The Reunion Riders are the riders that raced at the old
"Laconia National" at the Belknap recreational area prior to 1964. Many of
these men bring their old race machines and memorabilia to swap stories
about the glory days of Americas racing past. These are the genuine and
true American heroes unencumbered by the aloofness that isolates the
'famous' of today. These great racing men actually take the time to talk to
you and are thrilled to recount Americas motorcycle racing past. Miss this
event and you've missed a moment of racing history. It is a once in a
lifetime gathering of the sights, sounds, action, and men that thrilled
generations past.
	The *** UNITED STATES CLASSIC RACING ASSOCIATION *** is the oldest
continuously operating vintage motorcycle racing organization in the United
States and holds a charter with the American Motorcyclist Association(AMA).

USCRA web site: http://kyalami.chess.cornell.edu/uscra.html

MEDIA CONTACT: John Strempfer, 131 Webster Mills Rd,Chichester NH 03234
603-435-8188  or >> uscra@aol.com  e-mail <<

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #41
***************************
VintRR-digest          Tuesday, May 27 1997          Volume 01 : Number 042




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Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:22:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elin Phinizy 
Subject: Re: VintRR-digest V1 #41

>Two questions - resulting from cocktail party benchracing:
>
>1. Do you assemble your racebike and then safety wire everything or
>do    you safety wire each part as you install it? As a "wire each part
>as    it's installed" kind of guy, I seem to be greatly in the minority.

Chris... You forget the most major factor necessary for cocktail party
benchracing , etc. Before you wire anything --whether installed or pre
installation.... Take at least three parts gin (preferably Tanqueray -
vodka optional) to a mere whisper of dry vermouth in a shaker -- now some
people would rather shake and some would rather stirr -- and mix till there
is a definite chill, pour over ice and add several olives. ("Heavy Heavy
Fuel") Now, start bench racing! After two of these, either way works for
lock-wiring. In fact, just sit down for a few snorts, steam some mussels in
white wine/garlic and pour over pasta and lock-wire tomorrow. That's bench
racing! Right, Eve?(Who puts up very patiently with all of us at the
registration desk.)

>2. We all know arrogant or unpleasant racers whose behavior is
>excused by others as a result of their superior racing talent. Should
>these allowances be made, especially since vintage racing is "for
>fun"? The answer's probably "NO", but we still do it!

There will always be arrogant racers or whatevers in any sport. I can't
race at all well but have fun. At 50, it's not how fast but how much fun I
have going fast. That is -- of course -- with a properly lockwired bike.
There is never an excuse for arrogance. 'They' may race well, but they
aren't fun to have dinner with! Life is too short.

Jay

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:46:43 -0400
From: "Michael Green" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Ducati 350 - Roll Pins 

I know your problem. I had one come apart in minutes, and a second that I gave
up on in frustration after hours of BST. Someone once suggested drilling from
inside the cover, tapping the pin out and plugging the hole with epoxy.

My long-term solution was to buy a Scitsu.

- -- 
Michael D. Green                                   Email: green@hks.com
Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc                  
1080 Main Street, Pawtucket, RI 02860

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 8:49:00 -0400
From: John.Martin@fluordaniel.com
Subject: VintRR GP & WSB Races

     Is anybody recording the GP & WSB races that are being shown on TV, as 
     I would like to get a copy of them. In the Great White North (aka 
     Canada) our national sports (Joke) channel TSN stopped showing 
     motorcycle racing 3 years ago, & I have had to resort to buying the 
     Duke season round-ups each year to get my kicks. Although good I miss 
     the hour long episodes, can anybody help?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:03:32 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR MotoBi update

Um, let me amend that to I SHOULD have two 250 engines, as the fairly
complete assembled spare engine has just turned out to be a 125.

The first performance/reliability update is:

Eliminate the silly star lock washers from under the head nuts, and
replace them with hardened and ground flat washers.  What oddities
will surface next?

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:49:09 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR SS1 Dell'Orto Manual

Moto Italia has a couple of pages from an SS series (remote float 
smooth bore) Dell'Orto manual on their website at:

http://www.aa.net/~garage/motoital/dellorto.html

This is some good information that I hadn't seen before.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 97 15:04:00 GMT
From: P J Ralphs 
Subject: VintRR D.I.D alloy rims

Does anyone know where I might obtain a pair of D.I.D alloy rims for my   
race kit CB92, the size is 18x160x36. email Pete on   
p.j.ralphs@uclan.ac.uk  

------------------------------

Date: 27 May 97 15:31:24 EDT
From: Mark Hatten <102136.3317@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: VintRR Fun Questions

<>


I do all my safety wiring at one time -- that way I only draw blood once as
well!  I suggest leaving it until a few hours before departure to your race, and
finishing it up in tech line.  :-0


<<2. We all know arrogant or unpleasant racers whose behavior is         
excused by others as a result of their superior racing talent. Should   
these allowances be made, especially since vintage racing is "for      
fun"? The answer's probably "NO", but we still do it!>>

To one degree or another, we all are overcome somewhat by the "red mist".  Face
it, if racer's weren't competitive, they wouldn't be racers -- they'd be
trailering their old bikes to concours events and swap meet shows.  Still, 99%
of the racers I've been on the track with at AHRMA and WERA vintage events
definitely believe that discretion is the better part of valor.

One simple way to stay out of a lot of trouble is to not use every inch of the
track in practice or in your race (if you're gridded with multiple classes).  If
you use the last six inches of the track going in and the last six inches coming
out of a turn, you make it very difficult for someone to pass you cleanly.
Granted, the rider ahead has the right of way (I don't want to get *that* thread
started), but in the real world, leaving a bit of room will save you a lot of
close calls.

Vintage MC racing isn't like vintage car racing (ie:  a parade).  As Kevin
Cameron wrote, there's a few folks out there to display neat old bikes, but
there's a far greater number of people out there because vintage racing is some
of the most affordable, enjoyable, and competitive RACING to be found.


IMHO


Mark Hatten
Swingin' Singles Racing
AHRMA, WERA #97
Web Site:   http://members.aol.com/hatman97

  

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #42
***************************
VintRR-digest         Wednesday, May 28 1997         Volume 01 : Number 043




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Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:45:46 +0200
From: Dennis Harris Nielsen 
Subject: VintRR missing lists

Hello, I didnt get the Saturday list? Was there one? If so, could 
someone please send it to me?

Thank you in advance
Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:20:27 -0400
From: "Michael Green" 
Subject: VintRR Akront rims

Is it true that Akront rims are available again? And that some place in
California is importing them? If so, who?

Thanks

- -- 
Michael D. Green                                   Email: green@hks.com
Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc                  
1080 Main Street, Pawtucket, RI 02860

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:54:23 -0400
From: Tim Morrow 
Subject: Re: VintRR Akront rims

I don't know about new availability, but I have a perfect
1.85x19" 36-hole shouldered Akront that has been professionally
polished. It's from a disk-brake-equipped Yamaha XS650
(1974 TX650A - 1979 XS650F).

It's for sale for $75 plus shipping.

Tim
- -- 
Tim Morrow
Herndon, Va.
Morrows@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:39:01 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR Drum Brakes

What are you folks doing for race-quality drum brakes?

I've got an 8" 2LS Super Hawk front brake on my CR216 Honda (destined 
for some good linings before it gets ridden again).  

The 180mm Suzuki GT750 4LS brake is popular, affordable, but heavy
even after chopping big chunks of aluminum from it.  A comparison of 
brake specs I did some years ago showed that while some other 
production Japanese front drums matched the T500 Suzuki 2LS brake for 
diameter, the Suzuki had noticeably wider shoes, but it has a 
reputation for cracking under racing use.

The TD/TZ Yamaha 4LS fronts are a good brake, but not particularly 
lightweight (I had one on my 350 Ducati cafe racer) and have gotten a 
lot more expensive of late.  They are, in my estimation, too much 
front brake for the typical 250/350 4 stroke single race bike.

Replica Fontana and Ceriani brakes are available from several
different suppliers, and I think in either aluminum or magnesium. 
Pricey!  But they are "the real thing" and lighter if in Mg.  A
180mm 4LS Fontana/Ceriani Mg front brake would be neat to have for
the MotoBi project, but I don't know if the small brakes are also
being produced new, or just the big (expensive) brakes.

Seeley replica brakes are available, and possibly the Oldani and 
Fahron brakes as well.  I think Ellis may have gotten a set of the 
Honda CR replica brakes from Smith Somethingorother (I can't find 
their ad) in Japan, and I think they are pretty dear to buy too.

The 230mm Grimeca aluminum 4LS is available, but I think that is more 
suitable to a fast 350 or a 500.  Again, not as light as a Mg brake.  

Some Ducati singles, and I believe 350 Morini twins, came with a
dual-panel SLS front brake of about 180mm.  Stacatto Ducati used to
make replica Fontana/Amadori brake panels in Mg for this brake hub,
but I haven't seen one of their ads for quite a while. 

Anyone know of any other good options/sources for a race front brake? 
I can't see spending a lot of money on the rear brake - I don't much 
use them anyway.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:22:21 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR missing lists

> Hello, I didnt get the Saturday list? Was there one? If so, could 
> someone please send it to me?
> 
> Thank you in advance
> Dennis

Hello Dennis,

There were digests on Friday and Sunday, but none on Saturday.

I keep all the digests, so if anyone ever misses one just send an 
email directly to me and I'll fix you up with the missing messages.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:11:27 -0400
From: Jeff Bean 
Subject: Re: VintRR Akront rims

At 06:54 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I don't know about new availability, but I have a perfect
>1.85x19" 36-hole shouldered Akront that has been professionally
>polished. It's from a disk-brake-equipped Yamaha XS650
>(1974 TX650A - 1979 XS650F).
>
>It's for sale for $75 plus shipping.
>
>Tim
>-- 
>Tim Morrow
>Herndon, Va.
>Morrows@worldnet.att.net
>
>You wouldn't happen to have a 19" 40 hole Akront for my Norton drum brake
would you??
Thanks in advance.
bucbean@pipeline.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:30:59 -0400
From: "Timothy C. Bond" 
Subject: VintRR D.I.D alloy rims

Date: Tue, 27 May 97 15:04:00 GMT
From: P J Ralphs 
Subject: VintRR D.I.D alloy rims

P J Ralphs asks:
>Does anyone know where I might obtain a pair of D.I.D alloy rims for my   
>race kit CB92, the size is 18x160x36.

  According to my source, DID doesn't make rims  that narrow in 18"  or
does anyone else. If you would like to step up to 1.85" I can get it.
That's the thickness of three calling cards or two matchbooks!
   ___________________________________________________

   Tim(Bondo)Bond     Versailles.KY.USA   606-873-6686
   Wire Wheels Motorcycle Service
   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WireWheels
   ___________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #43
***************************
VintRR-digest         Wednesday, May 28 1997         Volume 01 : Number 044




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Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:55:14 -0400
From: "Gary Beale" 
Subject: VintRR Sheridan Brown phone #

Anyone have the phone number for Sheridan Brown?  He is a shock/fork
builder/tuner in Irvine.  Please reply direct.  Thanks.
Gary Beale
gsb@atlanta.dg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:59:40 -0400
From: "Karl W. Smolenski" 
Subject: VintRR Introduction

Hello,
	As per Michael's request here is an introduciton:  I'm been racing
motorcycles for about 4 years now, starting on an RS125 and moving on to a
vintage honda CB400f.  I've been primarily vintage racing but I'm also
interested in current race bikes as well.  I race with AHRMA (Daytona /
Mid-Ohio) and USCRA (all events at Loudon, NH and Ontario events).  In
addition to the Honda, I've also been racing a 1982 TZ250, and have just
finished building a Suzuki AS50 roadracer in a homemade frame (a rough copy
of a spanish Sanglas frame) to be campaigned in the USCRA 50cc cup.
Projects for the future include (this fall) a Honda Sound of Singles bike
(NX650 / with an Over style frame) and a Honda 350-4 in a RC replica frame
(long term).  And to fill my spare time I've set up a web site for USCRA:

http://kyalami.chess.cornell.edu/uscra.html

karl smolenski
#167
kws4@cornell.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:03:03 -0500 (EST)
From: ben.english@DMVMS.mailnet.state.ny.us
Subject: VintRR exhaust nuts, two-into-one design

Ray wrote a great story about taking his Norton to CLASS, but noted:
>> the only mechanical problem I had was the right exhaust nut started to come
loose.<<

And Michael Moore warned:
>>Don't you have your exhaust nuts safetywired to prevent this?  It
certainly was necessary to do that on my Ducati singles and
bevel-twins.<<

On a street Norton, wiring the exhaust nuts is an effective way to begin
stripping the threads in the head. If they are loose, they need to be
tightened. The only way you know they are loose is when they unscrew. If they
are wired to prevent unscrewing, they will vibrate in the holes and wear out
the threads. I would think this principle would apply to the Ducatis as well.

They probably came loose on Ray's bike because at race track throttle openings
he got it hotter than it had ever been before. This expands the alloy head more
than the steel nuts. Proper procedure is to have your exhaust nut wrench at the
ready after a good cooking hot run, LEAN on the mother and get them nuts tight.
You are then covered until the motor gets significantly hotter.

All bets off if threads are not in A-one shape to start with.

I would expect tech inspection to demand safety wire. If so, I would remove it
after passing tech. I would, however, then wire the pipes themselves to the
frame, so they wouldn't fall off if the nut unscrewed and was not noticed in
the heat of battle. On a Commando, such wiring would have to be left slack to
allow for the isolastic motion.

One could also wire the nuts with slack allowed, then regularly check to see if
it has tightened. If so, cut wire, re-tighten nut, and rewire.

Michael further commented on Rays perceived need for a better exhaust system:
>>You need a properly designed 2-1 exhaust system for your bike.  They
make a big difference on a 360 degree twin<<

By properly designed do you mean ala Dr Gordon Blair (or Dunstall) with the
separate pipes joining about 18" from the valve seats, or the usual American
way of joining them much further downstream?

I have never understood why the Blair-Dunstall method did not catch on more
widely.

Ben English

1972 Norton Commando Combat Roadster #201695 / 1972 Olmo 10 speed
Amtrak National Timetable / Pocket full of bus tokens / Good shoes

USNOA 1395 / NOC 05Y06.2530.0 / MGNOC 15713
Scowling Street Terrors 2 / Skinny Tire Motorcycle Club 3
Lower East Side Egyptian Cobras 4 / Hells' Vegetarians 5
Denizens of Doom 304

ben.english@dmvms.mailnet.state.ny.us                Albany, New York, USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:52:52 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR D.I.D alloy rims

> >Does anyone know where I might obtain a pair of D.I.D alloy rims for my   
> >race kit CB92, the size is 18x160x36.
> 
>   According to my source, DID doesn't make rims  that narrow in 18"  or
> does anyone else. If you would like to step up to 1.85" I can get it.
> That's the thickness of three calling cards or two matchbooks!

This size (WM1) used to be no problem to get.  I found a pair of 
WM0x18 Borranis a few years ago and have them on my S90 Honda.

Check with someone who has an MT125R Honda roadracer.  They came
with WM1 rims, though I don't know if they were DID, Takasago, or ? 
At one time everyone was putting WM2 rims on the race bikes so they
could run the 80/90x18 Dunlop K81 race tires.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:52:52 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Introduction

> finished building a Suzuki AS50 roadracer in a homemade frame (a rough copy
> of a spanish Sanglas frame) to be campaigned in the USCRA 50cc cup.

Hello Karl,

Pictures of the Suzuki when you get a chance, please? 

When I worked at a Suzuki dealership in 1971/72 I bought a factory 
hop up kit for the TS50.  I didn't get a bike for several more years, 
but I thought the idea of a hotrod 50 was amusing, and since I got an 
employee discount...

I installed the kit about 1975 into a TS50 I bought strictly for that 
purpose, rode it about 30-45 minutes, and then put it back to stock 
and sold it and the kit.

The kit was quite complete - new cylinder, head, piston, carb, side 
cover with bigger carb manifold, rotary valve, chamber, etc.

You can find a picture of a RR chassis Craig built for a Suzuki 50 on 
my web site.  I've still got the bike, though it now has a Honda C200 
motor in it - Craig built this for the Vetter Mileage competitions.  
I've even got a license plate for it.  Small Baroni forks, Campy 
mechanical disc front wheel with a two piston hydraulic caliper that 
Craig made by taking two tape-drive brake calipers and bolting them 
together.

Tiddlers are so cute.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:28:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR exhaust nuts, two-into-one design

Ben writes: 
> They probably came loose on Ray's bike because at race track throttle openings
> he got it hotter than it had ever been before. This expands the alloy head more
> than the steel nuts. Proper procedure is to have your exhaust nut wrench at the
> ready after a good cooking hot run, LEAN on the mother and get them nuts tight.
> You are then covered until the motor gets significantly hotter.

Probably became loose because the weren't tightened when hot (always 
a good idea due to the differential expansion as you mentioned) and 
then weren't safetywired.  If the threads are in good shape so that 
you can put a good amount of torque on them they will not loosen up.  
A threaded fastener that loosens is one that wasn't sufficiently 
tightened to begin.

> I would expect tech inspection to demand safety wire. If so, I would remove it
> after passing tech. I would, however, then wire the pipes themselves to the
> frame, so they wouldn't fall off if the nut unscrewed and was not noticed in
> the heat of battle. On a Commando, such wiring would have to be left slack to
> allow for the isolastic motion.

If I was running tech and saw this you would have your tech sticker 
pulled until you wired the nuts properly.  Safety wire is there 
to keep things from unscrewing and trying to fall off, not to hold 
them on AFTER they've unscrewed and fallen off.  If you can't wire it 
to the frame due to the rubber mounts then drill a small hole in an 
adjacent fin for the wire, or wire between the nuts (making sure that 
the wire is trying to tighten both nuts).
 
> Michael further commented on Rays perceived need for a better exhaust system:
> >>You need a properly designed 2-1 exhaust system for your bike.  They
> make a big difference on a 360 degree twin<<
> 
> By properly designed do you mean ala Dr Gordon Blair (or Dunstall) with the
> separate pipes joining about 18" from the valve seats, or the usual American
> way of joining them much further downstream?

Let's see, according to a quick run of Craig's exhaust pipe formulae, 
exhaustively developed with many years of dyno tuning/race engine 
building, 18" long primaries is about what you'd want for a road race 
Norton with an 11500 rpm power peak.  A 360 twin 2-1 uses the same 
header length as a 2-2 exhaust, but the tailpipe and megaphone must 
be of the proper design as well.  A 90 degree twin will want much 
shorter primaries on a 2-1, more in the 16-18" range due to the 
different way the exhaust pulses are timed.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #44
***************************
VintRR-digest         Wednesday, May 28 1997         Volume 01 : Number 045




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:20:03 -0400
From: Ellis Holman 
Subject: Re: VintRR Introduction

> (NX650 / with an Over style frame) and a Honda 350-4 in a RC replica frame
> (long term).  And to fill my spare time I've set up a web site for USCRA:
> 
> 
Hi Karl,
Keep the plans for the RC frame handy. Honda is reportedly going to
build a six cylinder 400. Much resembling the RC series sixes. Nice
engine to put into that frame of yours.
Ellis Holman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:25:53 -0400
From: Ellis Holman 
Subject: Re: VintRR Drum Brakes

(snip)
> Seeley replica brakes are available, and possibly the Oldani and
> Fahron brakes as well.  I think Ellis may have gotten a set of the
> Honda CR replica brakes from Smith Somethingorother (I can't find
> their ad) in Japan, and I think they are pretty dear to buy too.
(snip)
> 
> 
Michael,
My brake options have evolved as I've become smarter. My project started
out with the Suzuki GT750 4LS drum, a local breaking yard had some for
$50.00. I looked at the Honda Revival (Japan) brakes. Very nice, very
original reproductions of the CR parts, and VERY, VERY pricey, even with
the Yen/Dollar differential. I've gotten a
set of brakes from Pete Rhodes of Honda Racing Services in the UK. They
are reasonably priced, very good reproductions of the CR parts.
Ellis

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:49:19 -0400
From: "Karl W. Smolenski" 
Subject: VintRR Narrow Alloy Rims

The narrow alloy rims (18 x 1.6 x 36) are readily available new from Hagon
or Central Wheel Components in Britain, they ship UPS and take Visa, just
takes an extra week.  Akronts are definitely still in production.  They
have 17" / 18" WM1 / 2 and lots more.   Domi Racer used to have NOS San
Remo alloy Rims in 18" x 1.6", but all the USCRA 50cc people have been
buying up their supply.

If period authenticity isn't important I found a cheap wheel solution for
my Suzuki 50 was to run YZ80 MXer front wheels 17" x WM1 and use Michelin
Moped racing tires (70/50 - 17").   Very cheap wheels and lighter than
akronts, cheap and super sticky tires.

- -karl

I promise that scanned pictures of the Suzuki will be available soon.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:43:02 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Narrow Alloy Rims and Tyres

> If period authenticity isn't important I found a cheap wheel solution for
> my Suzuki 50 was to run YZ80 MXer front wheels 17" x WM1 and use Michelin
> Moped racing tires (70/50 - 17").   Very cheap wheels and lighter than
> akronts, cheap and super sticky tires.

Hello Karl,

This is interesting, and some bikes of the period did come with 17 
inch wheels (I think my 1966 B105P Suzuki 120cc single had 17s).

If anybody is looking for some good small street tires I have some 
sets of IRC NS-10 tires - 2.75x18 F/R.  They are a modern sport tread 
style, differentially patterned front and rear, and are supposed to 
be of a somewhat more sport biased compound.  $135 plus freight gets 
a pair of tires with a pair of new tubes.  I brought in a couple of 
batches of these from Japan, thinking I was going to be swamped by 
people looking for good tires for their small vintage street bikes.  
Sadly, that didn't happen, but I do have about 7 or 8 pairs of tires 
left.

I did sell a set of them to a fellow in Colorado who used them on an 
MT125R Honda, and it was reported to me that he liked them better 
than the Avons he had been running.  While I won't vouch for them 
being the hot track setup they are certainly better than age cracked 
Cheng Shins.

Cheers
Michael

Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:43:02 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Drum Brakes

> I've gotten a set of brakes from Pete Rhodes of Honda Racing
> Services in the UK. They are reasonably priced, very good
> reproductions of the CR parts.

> Ellis

Hello Ellis,

Can you give us a ball park price, and maybe drum sizes, shoe widths, 
weight information?

Thanks,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:59:22 -0400
From: Ellis Holman 
Subject: Re: VintRR Drum Brakes

Michael Moore wrote:
> 
> > I've gotten a set of brakes from Pete Rhodes of Honda Racing
> > Services in the UK. They are reasonably priced, very good
> > reproductions of the CR parts.
> 
> > Ellis
> 
> Hello Ellis,
> 
> Can you give us a ball park price, and maybe drum sizes, shoe widths,
> weight information?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364
> 
> 
Hi Michael,
The rear brake plate is the same as the standard CB77, it has the added
air scoop of the CR72. That would make it an 8 inch diameter, twin
leading shoe. The standard Honda drum is used with the brake panel. It's
cost runs $225.00

I don't have a lot of detail on the front brake... yet. Pete hasn't
finalized the price, but it was around $1100.00. It is also a 8 inch
diameter unit, of 4LS design. I'm expecting the parts to arrive here in
the states within the next two weeks, as soon as they do, I promise a
full report. Ellis

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:14:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "'Teflon'" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Drum Brakes

d the T500 Suzuki 2LS brake for 
>diameter, the Suzuki had noticeably wider shoes, but it has a 
>reputation for cracking under racing use.
>
I use a T500 brake on my 350 Honda. I'm curious as to where exactly the
cracking occurs.
,-------------------------------,
|    Dave "Teflon" Thompson     |
|      teflon@golden.net        |
| http://www.golden.net/~teflon |
`-------------------------------`

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #45
***************************
VintRR-digest          Thursday, May 29 1997          Volume 01 : Number 046




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:35:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elin Phinizy 
Subject: VintRR Drums & Morinis.

>
>What are you folks doing for race-quality drum brakes?

>Some Ducati singles, and I believe 350 Morini twins, came with a
>dual-panel SLS front brake of about 180mm.  Stacatto Ducati used to
>make replica Fontana/Amadori brake panels in Mg for this brake hub,
>but I haven't seen one of their ads for quite a while.

Michael,
I could be wrong -- and usually am -- the Morini (circa 1973/1974) 350
Sport had a 4ls front drum that was either a >>>> Grimeca <<<<< or a
Fontana. It was the hot set-up. It also had a slightly sportier compression
ratio. The 'Strada' had a 2ls drum. Within about two years or less, the 350
went over to disc and then twin disc until they stopped production around
1981-82. A Strada was raced in 350 GP, I think, at USCRA/Loudon about three
or four years ago and was competetive. Chris Stein could probably pinpoint
the exact date. The Sport and the Strada are absolutely delightful bikes
and reputedly handle better than the 500.

>Anyone know of any other good options/sources for a race front brake?
>I can't see spending a lot of money on the rear brake - I don't much
>use them anyway.

I have been using the R-5 Front drum with racing compound (fore and aft)
and it seems to be stopping quite well, not that I am ripping up the
pavement (except when I use too much rear brake and it's wet --
'cow-trailing' bad habits from 30 yrs ago). It is a 2ls. I have drilled it
out considerably to ventilate it. It's kind of fun running drums and a
straight piston-port - a challenge. For me it's like patting my head and
rubbing my belly at the same time. Bill Murar ran an R-5 in AHRMA for a
while with the front drum to no ill effect. I also remember seeing the
Bridgestone front 2ls on a 200 (??) raced several years back at Loudon. As
I have two beater 175's  -- soon to be a swan racer -- in the garage, the
front drum seems quite substantial and will just have to do.

The later (c. 1968+) Daytona/Bonneville front drum always had good stopping
power. I am not convinced the 'water buffalo' drum is so great in relation
to its weight. That's an aweful lot of cheeseburgers! One can only
sacrifice so much!

Jay
USCRA #47

p.s Welcome Karl! It's a nice web page, but I'm prejudiced.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:49:10 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Drum Brakes

> I use a T500 brake on my 350 Honda. I'm curious as to where exactly the
> cracking occurs.

Hello Dave,

I'd presume it is either in the flanges or between the flanges, as 
that is the area with the most stress and/or heat.  It might be 
worthwhile to give the drum a close inspection - just in case.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:57:17 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR Drums & Morinis.

> I could be wrong -- and usually am -- the Morini (circa 1973/1974) 350
> Sport had a 4ls front drum that was either a >>>> Grimeca <<<<< or a
> Fontana. It was the hot set-up. It also had a slightly sportier compression
> ratio. The 'Strada' had a 2ls drum. Within about two years or less, the 350

Hello Jay,

The Morini used Grimeca brakes.  The F.D. (Fontana Daniel) brakes 
were race brakes, and from the pictures I've seen mostly turned out 
by Sr. Fontana on a good sized lathe.  Grimeca, of course, is a 
fairly well known OEM supplier to the Italian motorcycle industry.

> I have been using the R-5 Front drum with racing compound (fore and aft)
> and it seems to be stopping quite well, not that I am ripping up the
> pavement (except when I use too much rear brake and it's wet --

A twin panel brake probably suffers a little less from fade caused by 
the drum going conical, since the bulkhead to outer drum distance is 
much shorter.  As always, lightness is sought by racers, hence the 
lust after Mg drum brakes.

> power. I am not convinced the 'water buffalo' drum is so great in relation
> to its weight. That's an aweful lot of cheeseburgers! One can only
> sacrifice so much!

I'll have to remember to drag out the Wasser Buffel brake I've got 
and weigh it some time, unless someone else has one handy they'd like 
to throw on the scales.  I have a vague recollection of the TZ 4LS 
brake weighing about 30 pounds less tire.

Michael Green of WCBR puts Honda 175 2LS backing plates in the Ducati 
drums on his race bikes, and considers it a noticeable improvment.  

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:09:18 +0100
From: John Woodgate 
Subject: Re: VintRR Paul Dunstall

Rdparts4u@aol.com wrote:
> 
> John,
> Fwiw I have a large supply of NOS Dunstall goodies for Kaw triples & GS1000S
> Suzukis.
> Doug

Sorry to the other members of the list, but messages to Doug at his aol
address bounce. If Doug is reading this, or anybody has contact with
him, can you please ask him to get in touch with me as I would like
details of the Dunstall 'goodies' for inclusion on the Dunstall Web
Page.

Thanks

John W
- -- 
.---------------------. .-------------------------------------------.
|d88888P   /   Y88888b|-|      Name: John Woodgate                  |-.
|88888P   /_  _ Y88888| |  Internet: johnw@bri.hp.com               | |
|88888   / / / / 88888| |     Phone: +44 117 922 9583               | |
|88888  / / /_/  88888| |       Org: Hewlett-Packard Ltd, Bristol   | |
|88888b    /    d88888| |Disclaimer: Opinions viewed are my own and | |
|?88888b  /    d88888P| |            do not represent HP in any way | |
`---------------------' `-------------------------------------------' |
 `----------------------' `-------------------------------------------'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:12:37 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintRR exhaust nuts, two-into-one design

I side with Michael on this thread.

I'm sure he realizes, but failed to mention, that the presence of safety
wire on a nut or bolt head is an indication that the builder has checked
that particular fastener for proper tightness.

BTW, I am looking for a delta box TZ250 Yamaha parallel twin to run in
AHRMA's BOT 2 stroke. I would prefer a race ready bike.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, MX and Trials rider
1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $4,950.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

- ----------
> From: Michael Moore 
> To: vintage-roadrace@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: VintRR exhaust nuts, two-into-one design
> Date: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 9:28 PM
> 
> Ben writes: 
> > They probably came loose on Ray's bike because at race track throttle
openings
> > he got it hotter than it had ever been before. This expands the alloy
head more
> > than the steel nuts. Proper procedure is to have your exhaust nut
wrench at the
> > ready after a good cooking hot run, LEAN on the mother and get them
nuts tight.
> > You are then covered until the motor gets significantly hotter.
> 
> Probably became loose because the weren't tightened when hot (always 
> a good idea due to the differential expansion as you mentioned) and 
> then weren't safetywired.  If the threads are in good shape so that 
> you can put a good amount of torque on them they will not loosen up.  
> A threaded fastener that loosens is one that wasn't sufficiently 
> tightened to begin.
> 
> > I would expect tech inspection to demand safety wire. If so, I would
remove it
> > after passing tech. I would, however, then wire the pipes themselves to
the
> > frame, so they wouldn't fall off if the nut unscrewed and was not
noticed in
> > the heat of battle. On a Commando, such wiring would have to be left
slack to
> > allow for the isolastic motion.
> 
> If I was running tech and saw this you would have your tech sticker 
> pulled until you wired the nuts properly.  Safety wire is there 
> to keep things from unscrewing and trying to fall off, not to hold 
> them on AFTER they've unscrewed and fallen off.  If you can't wire it 
> to the frame due to the rubber mounts then drill a small hole in an 
> adjacent fin for the wire, or wire between the nuts (making sure that 
> the wire is trying to tighten both nuts).
>  
> > Michael further commented on Rays perceived need for a better exhaust
system:
> > >>You need a properly designed 2-1 exhaust system for your bike.  They
> > make a big difference on a 360 degree twin<<
> > 
> > By properly designed do you mean ala Dr Gordon Blair (or Dunstall) with
the
> > separate pipes joining about 18" from the valve seats, or the usual
American
> > way of joining them much further downstream?
> 
> Let's see, according to a quick run of Craig's exhaust pipe formulae, 
> exhaustively developed with many years of dyno tuning/race engine 
> building, 18" long primaries is about what you'd want for a road race 
> Norton with an 11500 rpm power peak.  A 360 twin 2-1 uses the same 
> header length as a 2-2 exhaust, but the tailpipe and megaphone must 
> be of the proper design as well.  A 90 degree twin will want much 
> shorter primaries on a 2-1, more in the 16-18" range due to the 
> different way the exhaust pulses are timed.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide
for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #46
***************************
VintRR-digest          Thursday, May 29 1997          Volume 01 : Number 047




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Goodpaster 
Subject: VintRR T-500 brake

>e T500 Suzuki 2LS brake for 
>>diameter, the Suzuki had noticeably wider shoes, but it has a 
>>reputation for cracking under racing use.
>>
>I use a T500 brake on my 350 Honda. I'm curious as to where exactly the
>cracking occurs.
>,----------------
	The T-500 brake hub cracks along the ribs supporting the bearing housing. I have found NEW hubs with these cracks. It is not a function of racing
They can be beefed up in this area with small gussets tig welded in. I destroyed a hub purposely and it only took about #500 pounds of force from the press and the center blew out, did not collapse as you might expect an alloy to do. This is a casting def
	Exaust nuts should be wired as Micheal says to keep things from falling off. We have a good safety record at AHRMA because of good wiring practices by the riders. Pipes are being wired and mounted propery and no longer are used as brake markers..........

John Goodpaster
   AHRMA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 14:32:08 -0500 (EST)
From: ben.english@DMVMS.mailnet.state.ny.us
Subject: VintRR two-into-one exhaust, Suzuki brakes

Michael Moore wrote:
>> according to a quick run of Craig's exhaust pipe formulae,
exhaustively developed with many years of dyno tuning/race engine
building, 18" long primaries is about what you'd want for a road race
Norton with an 11500 rpm power peak.  A 360 twin 2-1 uses the same
header length as a 2-2 exhaust, but the tailpipe and megaphone must
be of the proper design as well.<<

I am sure I should know, but who is Craig? And why did the Blair-Dunstall
system work so well if Craig says it is wrong?

A friend of mine built his own Blair based design for his Norton P11 and it
worked great. With N15 wheels & brakes he actually won a race or two at the old
Woody Creek track near Aspen, Colorado in 1971 or 72. It was also relatively
quiet even with no muffling of any sort. He had around 24" or pipe after the
junction.

I don't see short header pipes even on systems built for motors that do rev to
12,000.

Michael also was considering a Suzuki T500 two leading shoe front brake:
>> the Suzuki had noticeably wider shoes, but it has a reputation for cracking
under racing use.<<

I put over 70,000 miles on a T500, and the only time I ever managed to fade the
stock front brake was with two passengers on the bike (yes, that is a payload
of three adults counting operator) going down a seriously steep San Francisco
hill with a red light at the bottom. We stopped alright, but if one of us had
had an extra donut for lunch we might not have.

The extreme width of the brake and its relatively lightweight construction make
the hub very susceptible to warping. You must use a perfectly true rim. Any
attempt to pull a less than perfect rim into true risks distorting the drum.

I did roadrace the T500 once (actually I crashed in practice trying to chase
the fast guys), but by that time I had a Suzuki four leading shoe double sided
brake on it. That was a whole lot heavier chunk of aluminum than the original.
The four shoe was used on early GT550s as well as the more famous GT750 "water
buffalo".

Ben English

1972 Norton Commando Combat Roadster #201695 / 1972 Olmo 10 speed
Amtrak National Timetable / Pocket full of bus tokens / Good shoes

USNOA 1395 / NOC 05Y06.2530.0 / MGNOC 15713
Scowling Street Terrors 2 / Skinny Tire Motorcycle Club 3
Lower East Side Egyptian Cobras 4 / Hells' Vegetarians 5
Denizens of Doom 304

ben.english@dmvms.mailnet.state.ny.us                Albany, New York, USA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 97 14:35:19 -0500
From: "Raymond P. Farrell" 
Subject: VintRR Norton Exhaust Nuts.....(again)

Hello all,

This topic about the loose Commando exhaust nuts has blossomed some, so I'll
get my two cents in.  I have quite a few street miles under my belt and I
know there are a lot of other Commando owners who will agree with me.  On a
street Commando, do -not- use safety wire, springs, or the bend over lock
tabs on the exhaust nuts, unless you want to pay someone to put in new
threads for you.  I would not even recommend using a set screw on a street
Commando.  

Ben English is right when he says:

Subject: Re: VintRR two-into-one exhaust, Suzuki brakes

> I am sure I should know, but who is Craig? And why did the Blair-Dunstall
> system work so well if Craig says it is wrong?
> A friend of mine built his own Blair based design for his Norton P11 and it
> worked great. With N15 wheels & brakes he actually won a race or two at the old
> Woody Creek track near Aspen, Colorado in 1971 or 72. It was also relatively
> quiet even with no muffling of any sort. He had around 24" or pipe after the
> junction.
> I don't see short header pipes even on systems built for motors that do rev to
> 12,000.

Hello Ben,

Craig is my friend and tuner - nearly 30 years as a professional
racing engine developer and mc/car chassis guy.  Craig started with
the standard formulae found in many books and refined them through
his own studies and many dyno runs.  The Blair exhaust, from what
I've heard, was designed as and may be fine as a street pipe, but
isn't really a race system.

I rode at Aspen once.  As I recall it was pretty tight, so a Norton 
with a midrange-biased exhaust would probably do pretty well.

My CR216 Honda with a 10-11K power peak, (and runs to 13K), has 20" 
head pipes.  

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:30:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Paul C. Kurth" 
Subject: VintRR exhaust designs

There has been several references to books that deal with the design of 
exhaust systems.  Could I get some info on these books.  I would like to 
look at a few of them.  All I have in my library are the text books from 
my fluid classes.

Thanks

Cameron

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #47
***************************
VintRR-digest           Friday, May 30 1997           Volume 01 : Number 048




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:26:51 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR Kicking people off the list

> By the way...did you throw me off all of your new lists ... I
> haven't gotten any mail for awhile.

I checked and you aren't currently subscribed.  Some ISPs seem to
bounce up and down, disappear for awhile (as far as the mailing
process goes), can't recognize their own subscribers, people go away
on vacation and their mailboxes get full, etc.  I think this is a
fairly widespread problem.  I'll let a subscriber go for 2-3 days of
bounces, but after that I presume that the email address is terminal
(usually after trying a direct message that gets bounced) and
unsubscribe the person.  If you are in digest mode on my lists you
should be getting a couple of digests a week minimum, so if you don't
get anything after a bit you might drop me a direct email to check.
I've had my ISP contact me to have people unsubscribed when the
bounces get very heavy (ie lots of list traffic).

Sorry for the inconvenience, but MY mailbox starts getting filled up
with bounce messages, and I have to look at each one to see if they
are different people or just one.

I now have instructions on subscribing for all five lists on their own
page on the web site.  I'll see if I can come up with an easy way to
get the digests on the web site, but you can always mail me and let me
know the last digest/message you got and I'll send you the digests you
missed.

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:51:37 AST
From: "Darrell Hingley" 
Subject: VintRR chassis alignment

I have been reading every thing I can on chassis alignment and have a 
couple of questions. I understand the concept that the front and rear 
wheels must be on the same alignment (centreline of both tires the 
same), but what if it turns out that if when measured for one side to 
the other to is found that one side is offset 9mm more. in other 
words if you were to place a straight edge resting against the two 
edges of the rear tire(front and back edges), and then measured from 
your straight edge to the front and back edges of the front tire and 
measured say 7mm on both. It this point then go to the other side and 
repeat the operation, and find that it is 16mm to the two edges of 
the front tire. Is this too much offset to one side to live with or is it a sign 
that somthing is bent or twisted. It should be noted that the rear 
tire was adjusted using the chain adjusted until it was in line. By 
this I mean that I measured from the centre of the swingarm pivot 
bolt, back to the centre of the rear axle. I then made both sides the 
same ( 540mm ). At this point I ran a string line along the face of 
the rear sprocket along to the face of the front sprocket, from this 
I noted that at the front edge of the rear sprocket the string was 
maybe 1mm away from the face of the sprocket. I look forward to your 
comments as I am about to put me butt on the line in another week for 
the first time this year. As a final note it is good to see that you 
Karl Somolski are wanting to build a little 350/4 racer, you should 
see the new 1997 cb400/f in Japan it looks like a 1975 400 but with 
four pipes like the cb-350/f but has a water cooled motor and all the 
other modern goods, the article also said that honda is planning on 
building a new CB-400 SIX CYLINDER. God my hands are shaking at the 
thought of having that little jewel in the garage. Darrell Hingley 
#62 in the land of the screaming fours.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:57:47 -0400
From: "Michael Green" 
Subject: VintRR Craim MacLean

>From the net

Wednesday morning IoM TT practice times:

Singles
1 Craig McLean          Ducati                  20m 54.1s       108.31mph
2 Johannes Kehrer       MuZ Skorpion            21m 53.9s       103.38
3 Steve Linsdell        Tigcraft Yamaha         22m 20.7s       101.31

Craig's an AHRMA/Sears Point fast guy and has been going to the Island for a
few years. Good to see him doing so well.

- -- 
Michael D. Green                                   Email: green@hks.com
Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc                  
1080 Main Street, Pawtucket, RI 02860

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:39:33 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: VintRR TZ250

Guys, I thought that when I sold my TZ250G and TD3 I was through with
vintage roadracing for a while (and could be content with MX.)

As usual, I don't know myself, and now harbor the longing to return to the
track.

Therefore, I am in the market for an AHRMA legal BOT 2 stroke racer, in the
form of a Yamaha TZ250 delta box, parallel twin, 1988, 89, or 90.

I would prefer a race ready mount but will consider all possibilities
including just engines, frames, wheel, parts, etc.

Thanks,

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, MX and Trials rider
1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $4,950.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:22:05 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR chassis alignment

Hello Darrell,

> the other to is found that one side is offset 9mm more. in other 
> words if you were to place a straight edge resting against the two 
> edges of the rear tire(front and back edges), and then measured from 
> your straight edge to the front and back edges of the front tire and 
> measured say 7mm on both. It this point then go to the other side and 

Way too much off line.

> tire was adjusted using the chain adjusted until it was in line. By 
> this I mean that I measured from the centre of the swingarm pivot 
> bolt, back to the centre of the rear axle. I then made both sides the 
> same ( 540mm ). At this point I ran a string line along the face of 
> the rear sprocket along to the face of the front sprocket, from this 
> I noted that at the front edge of the rear sprocket the string was 
> maybe 1mm away from the face of the sprocket. I look forward to your 

The fact that you can get an even offset at both front and rear of 
the front tire while having the axle aligned may mean that both sides 
of the swingarm are equally bent, or, possibly more likely, since the 
sprockets seem to be so close it may just be that the steering head 
is 6-7mm off the bike's centerline (not all that uncommon on a new 
frame from some of the factories for the older bikes).

If the frame is actually "straight" what you want to do is this:

Get the front wheel centered on the steering stem.  Now make new
rear wheel spacers to bring the rear wheel in alignment with the
front wheel.  Measure from the rim, not the tires for this, as tires
can vary quite a bit on how true they mount to the rim (and make
sure your rims are trued before starting).  Next start shimming the
front/back sprockets until they line up.

You should be able to bring the wheels within a millimeter of less of 
alignment this way.  When fiddling with spacers use a bunch of thin 
washers until you get the stacked height right, and then make your 
spacers.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #48
***************************
VintRR-digest          Saturday, May 31 1997          Volume 01 : Number 049




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:22:06 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintRR TZ250

> Therefore, I am in the market for an AHRMA legal BOT 2 stroke racer, in the
> form of a Yamaha TZ250 delta box, parallel twin, 1988, 89, or 90.
> Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, MX and Trials rider

Hello Rick,

The 96 rule book is the one that fell to hand just now, but it says 
that for 2smoke BOT H2O twins are limited to 1985 and earlier models 
with tubular steel frames.  I'd recommend you check the current rule 
book to see if what you want has now been made acceptable before you 
spend any money.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:00:45 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintRR TZ250

Michael,

Thanks for note of caution but, one of the reasons I sold my "G" was
because for '97, AHRMA has included parallel twin delta box TZ's into BOTT.
You may now run a 250cc delta box (parallel twin thru 1991) or a 350cc
steel frame. It's in the '97 printed rulebook and on ahrma.org.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, MX and Trials rider
1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $4,950.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

- ----------
> From: Michael Moore 
> To: vintage-roadrace@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: VintRR TZ250
> Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 9:22 PM
> 
> > Therefore, I am in the market for an AHRMA legal BOT 2 stroke racer, in
the
> > form of a Yamaha TZ250 delta box, parallel twin, 1988, 89, or 90.
> > Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, MX and Trials rider
> 
> Hello Rick,
> 
> The 96 rule book is the one that fell to hand just now, but it says 
> that for 2smoke BOT H2O twins are limited to 1985 and earlier models 
> with tubular steel frames.  I'd recommend you check the current rule 
> book to see if what you want has now been made acceptable before you 
> spend any money.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide
for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:59:24 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR Lots more pictures on the web site

The latest addition is an entire section devoted to some of the 2, 3
and 4 wheeled racing vehicles (and a 120 mph race-vehicle transporter)
constructed by former GP sidecar racer/constructor Rudi Kurth.

There are Kurth CAT sidecar outfits with BMW twin Rennsport four
stroke and Crescent and Yamaha 3 cylinder (yes, Yamaha) two stroke
engines.  The solos are Yamaha and Crescent triple powered
semi-kneelers, and the four wheelers include Alfa and Fiat racers, as
well as the CATVAN and several solar-powered racing vehicles.

I've also set up a separate page for the line of composite chassised
bicycles that Rudi makes.

Cool stuff - check it out.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:59:25 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR Eat your hearts out!

I've excerpted a section from a message sent to me by Ivar.  Not only 
did he do this last weekend, but he should be at the Isle of Man now!

Enjoy reading it - I did.
Cheers,
Michael

**********************************************************
Ivar wrote:

Last weekend I went to the CRT races. They ride in 6 classes,
50/125/250/350/500 and sidecars. Each class, but especially the 50,
has very interesting racing bikes, all classes have production
racers in them, some have factory racers competing. 

In the 50cc class some old G.P. riders from the seventies ride their
bikes, like Aalt Toersen on his 50cc Kreidler. He rides like a rocket
and the Kreidler is really extremely fast. Three or four other van
Veen Kreidler's compete, together with a batch of sixties Kreidler's,
Jamathi's (!!), FB Minarelli's, Sachses, and some home-made racing
bikes like a Hercules (with very intersting light-weight leading link
fork), Garelli, Moto Guzzi and Gilera. 

The bigger classes are interesting as well, seen can be a extremely
nice and fast 125cc Villa racing bike, ex. factory, who competes in
the 250 since it is so bloody fast. He competes often with a Yamaha
250 factory racer, which once belonged to Phil Read. It's nice to see
the rider makes a difference as well. Many Aermacchi Ala d'Oro's can
be witnessed, many carry a Metisse frame, in the 350 an ex. Sid
Lawton Aermachi competes, with it's distinctive light green colour.
These bikes are real fast and very well handling as I could judge
myself during a test spin. The 500 is very interesting. 

Some Crooks-Suzuki's, Yamaha 500's, and a bunch of hopped up
Goldstar's, 50's Gilera Saturno's, a Vincent Comet (Grey Flash
replica), Ducati single's compete enthousiastically against each
other. Most times the battle is against a Yam. 500, a Crooks Suzuki
and a hopped up Duc. 450 (non desmo). The Ducati rider sweeps with
the bike in a way which is not to be expressed in words, FAST!  On
straights he loses, but he makes it more then well in corners, and
just after corner's torquey accelaration.  Indeed, the rider makes
the difference.  He carries still stock brakes, naturally with non
stock linings.  "It's a hobby", he always says when someone asks him
why he doesn't ditch the old brakes.  The CRT races are always fun,
and atract a crowd as well. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:59:55 +0100
From: Mike Dearman 
Subject: VintRR TTrace results

For anyone wanting practice times results and pic including some vintage
pics try http://mannet.mcb.net/ttraces/
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:58:14 -0500
From: Mike and Rebecca Stenger 
Subject: VintRR IOM TT

> I've excerpted a section from a message sent to me by Ivar.  Not only
> did he do this last weekend, but he should be at the Isle of Man now!
> 
> Enjoy reading it - I did.
> Cheers,
> Michael

Does anyone know if the Isle of Man TT is going to be televised in the
US? I caught last years on Speed Vision. Now THAT's racing! I just wish
there was more coverage of the smaller unusual classes.

Mike Stenger    '89 GB500   et al

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #49
***************************
VintRR-digest           Monday, June 2 1997           Volume 01 : Number 050




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:40:07 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR Determining rear damper length

I initially wrote this to send to Alec Millet in Australia, who is
trying to decide what dampers to buy for his Ducati 350 road racer.  I
thought that it might be of use to someone else.  This is a pretty
basic treatment, and if you are running a 100 bhp bike this procedure
may require a bit of modification on the final setup.
********************************************

Before buying your rear dampers do this:

Pull off the dampers and let the tire rest inside the rear fender.
Measure the center-center distance on the damper mounts, then add 1/2"
to that for fender clearance and record this dimension.  Be aware that
fender clearance can vary with chain adjuster position so to check
that out move the adjusters full forward and full aft to see if the
minimum clearance changes.  

Now put the bike back on the stand (still without dampers) and let the
rear wheel droop.  I don't know if you still have the passenger peg
mounts, as they are often used as an exhaust mount on the Ducati
singles, but let the wheel go down until you start to see the chain
interfering with the top of the swing arm pivot or other parts of the
bike.  Measure the damper mounts again.

Now align the c/s sprocket, swing arm pivot and rear axle on the
same line.  Measure the damper mounts again.  This should be the
tightest point on the chain, and the chain will loosen as the rear
axle moves up or down.  This is a good time to set your chain tension.
 When you get a final setting on the damper lengths you can measure
the chain slack at full extension of the rear suspension and record
that figure for later use.  This is much easier than pulling the
dampers off every time you want to adjust the chain!

You now know the potential maximum and minimum lengths of the
dampers. 

Try to get a 4" travel damper, as the Ducati dampers are not heavily
leveraged on the swing arm and 4-5" of travel is pretty nice to have
on a road racer, especially on a bumpy course.  I think that both my
Laverda and the Honda run close to 5" of travel in the rear
suspension.  The longer travel lets you run a little more sag,
allowing the rear wheel to move down into dips in the road instead of
leaving the ground when encountering the dip.  The longer travel will
also let you run a lighter spring.  Sometimes the dampers come with
shorter travel done by adding spacers on the shaft, and I've
successfully cut these off of Girlings/Hagons (the Hagons are plastic)
to increase travel. Don't confuse these spacers with the rubber bump
stop.  Always presume the bump stop will compress to zero when
figuring the actual shaft travel of the damper.

Consider making the travel symmetric about the "3 points in a line"
figure, as that will keep the chain tension most constant.  Record the
max/min damper lengths that this gives you, and compare with the
potential max/min lengths you measured earlier.

I'd recommend biasing the length a bit towards the long side, as that
will steepen the front end a bit and give some more ground clearance.
As long as you aren't having massive chain rub on the swing arm pivot
you probably don't need to worry much about excessive anti-squat in
the rear end (besides, it doesn't seem to make a great deal of
difference in our small displacement low-powered vintage bikes). 

You now have a good idea of what damper length you need for your bike,
which may well be different than the length of the OEM damper, or what
your local "never seen one of these bikes, mate" parts guy will
recommend for your bike.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:40:56 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintRR SF2RR update - cam chain tensioner modifications

When Craig and I pulled the cam chain tensioner at his shop I
noticed that the rubber block (part # 5040100212) on the tensioner
that the tensioner pushrod pushes against was showing some cracking,
and looking somewhat second hand.  I mentioned to Craig that perhaps I
should make one out of some UHMW (ultra high molecular weight)
polyethelyne.  His recommendation was to make it out of aluminum
instead.

Craig felt that the part was originally made out of rubber for two
reasons - it may damp a little noise, and it was probably cheaper to
make.  His experience with chain tensioners is that ANY compliance in
the system will result in trouble controlling the cam chain (and I do
have some rub marks in the front of the cam chain tunnel in the
cylinder).  Therefore, not only make the block out of aluminum, but
also look at the rest of the tensioner arm to see if it shows any
areas that would benefit from some stiffening.

This information definitely applies to Hondas etc.

Once I get this part remade, and the Total Seal piston rings come in I
can get back to assembling the engine.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 18:11:31 -0400
From: Ellis Holman 
Subject: Re: VintRR SF2RR update - cam chain tensioner modifications

(snip)
> cylinder).  Therefore, not only make the block out of aluminum, but
> also look at the rest of the tensioner arm to see if it shows any
(snip)
> This information definitely applies to Hondas etc.
> 
I second this notion. I my specific case of the CB77 engine, there are
two problematic areas. One is the tensioner sprocket at the back of the
cylinders, this can be replaced by an idler gear from the top of a
Kawasaki Z1 cylinder head. The second potential problem area is the
rubber idler at bolted to the upper engine case. These  have a tendancy
with age, heat, and exposure to oil to become hard. I replaced mine with
an aluminum wheel, with a bronze center bearing. Engine's not quite as
quiet, but the cam chain doesn't leave marks on the inner walls of the
cam chain tunnel.
Ellis

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jun 97 12:01:00 EDT
From: "LACKO, JOHN, HMR/US" 
Subject: VintRR fairing for sale

This is a spare if anyone can use it (ad below).  I had planned to mount it 
on my 1950 BMW racer, but stumbled onto something else to use instead.  The 
fairing was made for a Bultaco roadracer, but it's a pretty simple design, 
so it can be mounted on many other vintage machines. jl

John Lacko  lacko@brwhcc3.hcc.com
 -------------------------------------------------------
AirTech 'chin' racing fairing  (no headlight cutout) for sale.  Never 
painted or used. Still in gel coat & no mounting holes ever drilled. JPG 
photo available by e-mail. Cost $125 new -  I'd like to get $60 and have 
someone else put it to good use.
 -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:07:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. BENSON" 
Subject: VintRR The Perfect Vehicle

Folks, this is marginal to either list, but still of general interest.
While browsing bookstores in Albuquerque over the weekend, I came across a
book I've really enjoyed reading, and wanted to let others know about it.

It's only somewhat about vintage racing (does have a great photo of G Duke
starting the 1951 Dutch TT, though), and has even less about chassis
design.  It's mostly a wandering tale of the author's entry into the world
of motorcycles about ten years ago, along with a lot of general stuff
about bikes and bikers.  The author is a Guzzi rider/fan, so that's the
marque that gets the most attention (including a great dust cover with a
photo and line drawing of a 1954 MG 500cc race bike).

I read it quickly--it caught my attention--and enjoyed it.

Source info:

Melissa Holbrook Pierson  (1997).  The Perfect Vehicle:  What It Is About
Motorcycles.  W.W. Norton & Company, New York and London.  ISBN
0-393-04064-X.  $24.00 US suggested.

Enjoy!

Phil Benson

------------------------------

End of VintRR-digest V1 #50
***************************









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