Vintage Dirt Digest #11-20



VintDirt-digest         Friday, April 18 1997         Volume 01 : Number 011




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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Murray 
Subject: Re: VintDirt-digest V1 #10

> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:29:43 -0500
> From: "Rick R. McDowell" 
> Subject: VintDirt Introduction
> 
> 
> With the growing interest in Vintage racing in this area and the
> burning desire to get back out there and stuff someone in a berm, I
> have restored my 1974 450 Maico to like new condition.  Now it is
> almost too new to ride, it would make me sick to scratch it.  In the
> near future I will be restoring my 1973 250 CZ which has about 10
> original hours on it.  A friend had it and only raced it twice. 
> Another friend has a 1973 250 Husky in like new condition, but I think
> I will have to out live him to get it away from him.
> 
> The Bing carb on the Maico leaks a little more than normal and I was
> wondering what the trick is to get the needle seat out of it so I can
> replace it.  I am going to need a new set of clutch plates and ignition
> points too.  Any one have any?


Rick "Super Hunky" Seimens wrote a good article on Bings for Maicos
that was in an issue of Old Bike Journal about a year ago or a little
less.   I'd offer to copy it for you but I have no idea where it is...

For parts, Northwest CZ/Maico (503) 389-6112 is a good source, they're
very enthusiastic and know a lot.


- -- 
   Eric Murray  ericm@lne.com         Privacy through technology!
  Network security and encryption consulting.    PGP keyid:E03F65E5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:01:10 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Magnum Pipes?

Rick, if you have trouble finding a seat e-mail me & I will try to help.
Sorry, can't help on Magnum pipe other than suggest you contact Bob Borg or
Vintage Iron. Rick #90E.

- ----------
> From: Rick Cording 
> To: Vintage Dirt 
> Subject: VintDirt Magnum Pipes?
> Date: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 12:26 PM
> 
> Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Magnum Pipes?
> 
> Does anyone have the phone number for Magnum Pipes?  I'd like to discuss
the
> possibilities of getting one of his pipes for my CZ.  By the way, if
anyone
> has a lead on a CZ seat let me know as well, as my project showed up
without
> one (and yes I know that the European riders used to practice without
one, but
> not this out of shape desk jockey...)
> 
> rick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:06:51 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: VintDirt Re: CZ Model 470 Manual

I'm hunting an owner's/repair manual for any of the CZ Model 470 Trials
bikes, circa mid 1960's. I have two to restore and hope to use one for
AHRMA Trials. Also need a carb cover and mud skirts. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks, Rick #90E.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:26:15 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt can-am rotax

> Hi all. Im trying to get my 250 flat tracker going to race at sturgis.
>    Its a 1975 can-am rotax engine in a cheney flat track frame.
>      I just got it running after 15 years of storage. The problem is the
> kick starter keeps clicking after its running. probaly a spring but do I
> need to split the casings to fix this?  Any can-am experts out there?
>                                                                             
>                                   Dan

Hello Dan,

Drop a line to Pete Snell at
 "Pete Snell" 

I don't recall if he's on this list, but he's on the 
mc-chassis-design list, and I've gotten some advice on the 2smoke 
Rotax motors from him.  I'm afraid it's been too long since I pawed 
through the engine on my 250 single roadracer to remember how the 
kickstarter stuff is arranged.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:44:31 -0700
From: harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt can-am rotax

Dan:  I used to know but forgot years ago.  Check with an ATK dealer as
they used the rotax 250 engine until a year or so ago.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:05:19 -0700
From: harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Bore or hone?

Thank you for your prompt and thorough answer to my question regarding
the bore/hone question.

Please recommend a shop who will do this work (boring).  I am willing to
ship the parts anywhere.  Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:01:14 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Bore or hone?

> Thank you for your prompt and thorough answer to my question regarding
> the bore/hone question.
> 
> Please recommend a shop who will do this work (boring).  I am willing to
> ship the parts anywhere.  Thanks

Hello Harold,

As usual, I'll recommend my friend Craig Hanson

Hanson Racing Technology
Chico CA
916-342-8049

He has a friend that he's used for many years who has a very 
expensive Sunnen boring machine at his automotive machine shop.  
Also, this fellow is familiar with hi-perf motorcycle stuff since 
Craig has all of his boring done there.  Give Craig a call and sort 
things out with him.  You can see a copy of his retail crankshaft 
service prices on my web site.  I've been spending a lot of money 
with Craig for the last 15 years (not because he's expensive - in 
fact he is very reasonably priced - I just have a LOT of project 
bikes for him to work on) and can't recommend his work enough.

He is quite at home with hopping up (or down) both two and four 
stroke engines, for trials/MX/roadrace/dragrace use.  You can see 
pictures of some of the bikes he's designed and built on the graphics 
page of the web site.

He built the engine in my 250 CanAm single roadracer, and has a 
number of Rotax 2 and 4 stroke single engines scattered around the 
shop.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:22:57 -0400
From: Larry Welsh 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Bore or hone?

Harold wrote:
> 
> I have a Hercules GS-250 which is no big deal but for the cost of a
> pistion which is $170.  I have a second oversized piston, and now must
> enlarge the bore of the jug to fit the piston.
> 
> Years ago, I read an article which said that one should never hone a
> cylinder, but should only bore it.
> 
> The local machine shop I normally use for all types of stuff wants to
> hone the cylinder, assuring me that the bore will be round and the sides
> parallel.  Should I hold out for a boring bar, or what?
> 
> I don't want to do the bike again any time soon.
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Harold Mclean

Harold:
     Run, don't walk, away from that "machine" shop. Anybody who tells
you thay can get a "round" hole after honing away .020" doesn't
understand the meaning of "round". Even with a Sunnen keyway hone,
taking out that much material will result in some taper and ovality.
Much better to get it bored, with final fit and finish done with a
keyway hone.

Regards,
Larry Welsh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:40:23 -0700
From: harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Bore or hone?

You guys have smooth-talked me into getting my cylinder bored rather
than honed.

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:29:33 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Don't have problems until Monday

I'm heading off to Laguna Seca in an hour and won't be back until 
late Sunday night.  

If you have any list problems you'll need to suffer quietly until I 
get back and can help you with them (probably Monday evening).

Until then, 

Have fun

Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:11:49 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: VintDirt CL72

I am looking for a 1964/65 Honda CL72 to race in AHRMA's Premier division.
Poor cosmetics is not a problem but would prefer to buy a bike that runs. I
also would appreciate any racing/performance upgrade info on these bikes.

Also, I am compiling a list of CZ dirt riders. When I receive enough
response I will publish a list under the title of the JCPS, Jawa/CZ
Preservation Society. The listing is free and I only need
your name and mailing address. I have recently received even more photo
copies of old CZ literature and will be happy to share copies with the
membership.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider on 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400 and 1964 CZ
175 Trials. BMWMOA member, 1974 BMW R90S,
and 1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.)

------------------------------

Date: 17 Apr 1997 13:13:22 -0800
From: "Rick Cording" 
Subject: VintDirt Tank Repair

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Tank Repair

Anyone had any luck removing tank cream?  My CZ tank needs its seem welded,
but unfortunately the the DPO has poured gobs of cream inside the tank in a
vain effort to keep the tank from leaking at the seam, which unfortunately
contaminates the weld.  I'd also like to repaint a coffin replica tank for my
other bike.  Has anyone had any luck painting these old plastic tanks?

rick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:13:50 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Tank Repair

Rick,

Having raced on again, off again for the past 30+ years I have painted
countless tanks, using various methods. I can offer my experiences
categorized in two extremes:

1. go to your nearest AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc. and buy a cheap can of spray
paint; do minimal prep; spray thick coats; expect to last one race;

2. use something akin to the methods practiced by body shops.

I have slowly graduated to the body shop method with some exceptions.
First, I do not have a place to spray indoors. Therefore, I must wait for a
mild, windless day outside. Any season other than the summer is best as it
seems that wet paint is akin to a hormonal attractant for every flying
critter around my house. And of course, it's that last "wet" coat that is
most attractive. 

I purchased an inexpensive spray gun to attach to my Sears air compressor,
along with a long air line and now spray the same commercial grade of paint
as the body shops. It requires mixing with hardener and reducer but is
really worth the effort. My most recent project was to paint a plastic
coffin tank to use on my 1972 CZ 125 MX bike (won at AHRMA Ocala.)

The tank had light scratches which I filled with bondo, then I sanded with
220 grit, moving thru stages to 400 grit. Monitor your sanding not to leave
more scratches than when you start. Prior to painting I filled the gun with
a plastic prep manufactured by SEM, part # 38354. This is the same gook
that the NASCAR boys prep the front clips prior to painting. This chemical
is sprayed directly on the piece and allowed to dry (5 min.) It has some
chemical interaction with the plastic, allowing the paint to "grab" the
surface.

I then sprayed the tank with DELSTAR Acrylic Enamel Competition Yellow,
part # DAR-4266. The last coat was attacked by a gnat, but after 2 days of
drying I could compound out the wings, legs, body, etc. Finally, I used a
light compound,  applied two CZ decals, and waxed.

I have found the trick to painting is PRACTICE. Adjusting the gun, nozzle
to surface distance, and drying time between coats is something I have yet
to completely mastered.

The paint job has thus far lived thru 4 motos. It is hard and has good
depth. Now I'm not saying I'm good enough to spray a show quality finish;
but it works for me.

As for the tank cream, I too trued to remove some but with no success.
Maybe the manufacturer can recommend a procedure. But would seem to me that
only an acid would work which would also attack and ruin any paint.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider on 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400 and 1964 CZ
175 Trials. BMWMOA member, 1974 BMW R90S,
and 1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.)

- ----------
> From: Rick Cording 
> To: Vintage Dirt 
> Subject: VintDirt Tank Repair
> Date: Thursday, April 17, 1997 5:13 PM
> 
> Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Tank Repair
> 
> Anyone had any luck removing tank cream?  My CZ tank needs its seem
welded,
> but unfortunately the the DPO has poured gobs of cream inside the tank in
a
> vain effort to keep the tank from leaking at the seam, which
unfortunately
> contaminates the weld.  I'd also like to repaint a coffin replica tank
for my
> other bike.  Has anyone had any luck painting these old plastic tanks?
> 
> rick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:06:52 +1200
From: David Gibb 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Tank Repair

At 01:13 pm 17-04-97 -0800, you wrote:
>Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Tank Repair
>
>Anyone had any luck removing tank cream?  My CZ tank needs its seem welded,
but unfortunately the the DPO has poured gobs of cream inside the tank in a
vain effort to keep the tank from leaking at the seam, which unfortunately
contaminates the weld.  I'd also like to repaint a coffin replica tank for
my other bike.  Has anyone had any luck painting these old plastic tanks?
>
>rick
>
>
I have just bought some "Kreem" to try and seal the fibreglass on my Ossa
tank, the guy who "restored" it just painted over the glass without sealing
it and the paint has some little bubbles where the fuel has bled through.
The instructions with the Kreem say to use Methyl ethyl keytone (available
at most paint stores) to dissolve the Kreem. They say half fill the tank,
seal and leave for 24 hours with periodic agitation. Drain into a container
and inspect the tank. If Kreem remains pour solution back into tank and
repeat until all Kreem is removed. 
These instructions are for a metal tank, it would pay to check if your
plastic would be sake with this stuff before trying. 
Good Luck.
Dave
David Gibb
MGNOC #12374
daveg@chch.planet.org.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #11
*****************************
VintDirt-digest        Tuesday, April 22 1997        Volume 01 : Number 012




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Date: 21 Apr 1997 10:10:49 -0700
From: "Rick Cording" 
Subject: VintDirt More tank questions

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               More tank questions

My CZ plastic "coffin" tank mounts similar to the stock tank using brackets
that bolt to the tank (vs single bolt like most of the aftermarkets).  Here's
the question:  the gas taps appear to have been 'dropped' in from the inside,
as the tap holes are not threaded.  Have you seen a setup like this?  Taps
have broken handles (their alloy base w/ a plastic tapered handle.  Know of
replacement parts for this type (I know it's really hard to tell from my
discription.  Would you  know how (or of someone) to put threaded inserts into
the plastic to use stock type taps?  

rick

ps thanks for replys on painting plastic and stripping old tank sealer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:37:09 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

> Poor cosmetics is not a problem but would prefer to buy a bike that runs. I
> also would appreciate any racing/performance upgrade info on these bikes.

Hello Rick,

Do you have the Cycle (World?) article on the CL72/77 race bike set 
up by, I think, Bud Ekins?  If not, let me know and I'll try to scan 
it for you.

> Also, I am compiling a list of CZ dirt riders. When I receive enough
> response I will publish a list under the title of the JCPS, Jawa/CZ
> Preservation Society. The listing is free and I only need

And don't forget about Reese Dengler's Czechpoint web site, linked 
from my clublinks page.  Drop Reese a line and he'll probably want to 
add something about your list on his site.

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:51:00 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

Michael, yes, I would appreciate a copy of the article. Reese and I talk on
occasion and he is aware of my list. BTW, I saw the mention of vintage-dirt
at ahrma.org. Good going. Now back to reading the BMW mailing list.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider on 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400 and 1964 CZ
175 Trials. BMWMOA member, 1974 BMW R90S,
and 1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.)

- ----------
> From: Michael Moore 
> To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72
> Date: Monday, April 21, 1997 9:37 PM
> 
> > Poor cosmetics is not a problem but would prefer to buy a bike that
runs. I
> > also would appreciate any racing/performance upgrade info on these
bikes.
> 
> Hello Rick,
> 
> Do you have the Cycle (World?) article on the CL72/77 race bike set 
> up by, I think, Bud Ekins?  If not, let me know and I'll try to scan 
> it for you.
> 
> > Also, I am compiling a list of CZ dirt riders. When I receive enough
> > response I will publish a list under the title of the JCPS, Jawa/CZ
> > Preservation Society. The listing is free and I only need
> 
> And don't forget about Reese Dengler's Czechpoint web site, linked 
> from my clublinks page.  Drop Reese a line and he'll probably want to 
> add something about your list on his site.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael 
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide
for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:13:56 -0700
From: Jerry Erickson 
Subject: VintDirt Intro

New member.  Also new to vintage bikes.  But not new to bikes.  Had 
these bikes when they were new.  Guess that makes me vintage too.  
Currently into Pentons, Victors, Cotas, small bore Huskys and Honda 
Scramblers.  

Vintage Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:22:01 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt The Laguna Seca Vintage Races

About 3 weeks ago Michael Green from West Coast British (Racing)
called and offered me the use of his 200cc Ducati (a sleeved-down 250)
for the Team Obsolete Vintage "Exhibition" races at Laguna Seca, and
no great arm twisting was needed to get me to accept his offer. I
entered the Ducati in the 250GP, and in a fit of optimism entered the
Laverda in F750.  The Laverda didn't get together in time, so I
swapped the entry for a slot in the 350GP race on the 200.

I left for Laguna Seca last Thursday midday, and arrived around 3PM to
register and then help run tech (Michael Green of WCBR, his friend
Rob, and I ran tech all weekend).

Friday the fog was in, and the morning Vintage practice (and pretty
much every other practice) was scratched due to near zero visibility,
especially at the top of the hill going to the Corkscrew.

Things cleared up around noon, and I eventually got to take the WCBR
200cc Ducati out to get familiar with it and refamiliarize myself with
the track (which I last rode in 1987).  The Duckling was freshly
assembled and needed some break in.  The carburation was a bit off too
but I didn't want to mess with it until I was more familiar with the
bike.  As it worked out, it never was changed as the limited practice
didn't give enough opportunity for testing (and if it is at all
rideable I'll leave things alone rather than go into a race with an
untested change).

Friday night in Salinas the rain came down pretty heavily, but after
some delay Saturday morning the track was finally dried out enough for
practices.  The Vintage practice was late in the morning, and the race
(last of the day) was about 6PM.  The jokes about rounding up enough
flashlights to tape to the bikes were getting a bit strained by then. 


The Saturday race was F750/350GP/Pre52/Class C.  Dave Roper was 
riding the Dick Mann BSA triple in the race, but the clutch expired
and he retired.  I don't have the F750 results, but in the 350GP race
Michael Green got the holeshot, and after a few turns noticed
something dragging.  It turned out the megaphone had fractured, and
Michael pulled off in Turn 5 and battered the megaphone until it broke
off the rest of the way.  He then rejoined the race, passing 5 riders
by the Corkscrew, and taking the lead by Turn 5 on the second lap.  He
went on to lap the 350s up to 4th place (in a 6 lap race), and passed
all but the top 5 F750 entries.  Erik Green, on a Team Obsolete AJS 7R
was second, and I managed to take the 200 Ducati past a 250 TSS
Bultaco and an AJS 7R, as well as one or two of the Pre'52 bikes for
10th in class.

Sunday the weather was much nicer.  I spent the morning helping Dave
Roper strip the clutch on the BSA so it would be available for David
Aldana to ride in the midday exhibition.  All the metal plates were
warped and the other plates were shedding the friction material.  We
couldn't get the plates pulled out of the clutch (this is a dry clutch
mounted in the primary cover, not the stock BSA/Triumph cast iron
abomination lurking deep in the bowels of the engine) and ended up
having to pull the clutch and drive the hub and plates out.  A
moderate amount of dressing of the slots in the hub and basket was
needed to get the new plates to move freely.  I had just gotten my
hands cleaned up when the PA announced first call for the Vintage race
(500 Premier, 250GP, Classic 60s).  

I scrambled into my gear and went over to the WCBR pit area.  I
checked for fuel, plugged in the battery, and got Rob to push.  It
wouldn't fire, and then Rob noticed the rag was still stuffed in the
carb bellmouth - DUH!  After removing the obstruction the bike started
up and I made my way to the hot pit gate.  Upon arrival the bike died
and wouldn't restart - nary a pop.  I pushed back to the pit and, as
it was the only thing I could think of that I could do, swiped the
battery out of the WCBR 350 Ducati and attracted the attention of a
bypasser for a push (yelling in a full-face helmet isn't very
effective for this).  The bike started up - it turned out that Rob and
Michael hadn't put a fresh battery in it and the previous day's use
had drained it.

I rushed back to the hot pit gate, but since the rest of the grid was
already forming on the track I was directed up to the starter's
position (at the bridge across the track, well up the front straight)
and told to wait there until the entire grid had gone by. This gave me
a nice uphill standing start, and I crested the hill to see the last
rider leaving turn 2.  

Spurred on by the adrenaline generated by the bad battery incident,
and getting more comfortable with the bike with each lap (and no doubt
helped by the good luck pat the bike got earlier in the morning from
Beth Dixon) I was able to catch up and pass an unknown number of
riders (I don't have the results sheet for Sunday) and finished 3rd in
class (250GP).  Being on a 200 against the 250s (including at least
one Bultaco 250) I was pretty well chuffed by this.  As expected,
Michael Green ran away from everyone to take the 250 class as his
second win of the weekend.

Other tidbits:  Yvon duHamel was the top 350 rider in the 500
Premier class on a TO AJS.  John Cronshaw was entered in the class on
the ever-so-trick Unity BSA, and I'm sure he finished well up in the
pack if not in first.  I think I did see him at the victory circle
after the race, but I had pulled well back from the stand so as to
stay out of range of the spraying champagne.

Instead of trophys we were presented with certificates signed by the
riders in the exhibition laps (see my other post on this), and 3rd
place also netted me a $75 gift certificate to AirTech, one of the
Team Obsolete sponsors.

Overall, the Team Obsolete races went very well.  The riders all had a
good time, no serious crashes occurred (being there for FUN was
repeatedly emphasized by race director Randy Bradescu), and the
spectators seemed to be enjoying the races.  With luck, SCRAMP and the
AMA also were pleased and we'll be able to do it again next year. 

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:25:34 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Team Obsolete - Exotic Bikes and Riders

I'll make my bias clear from the start - if you ever have a chance to
see the Team Obsolete works-bikes run, DO NOT MISS IT!!!!!!!

I spoke with one person who had come up from Bakersfield to the
track specifically to see the Honda six - he wasn't interested in the
AMA races, and while he enjoyed the vintage races and the other works
bikes, the six was the big draw.  I'm sure this holds for other people
too.

The star of the collection is the 250cc Honda six-cylinder bike.  This
bike is definitely on my short list of the all-time coolest race bikes
built (I also like the Moto Guzzi 350/500 V8s for their complex
engines, and the Moto Guzzi mid-50s works singles for their elegant
simplicity, and the Honda 125-5 because it is so tiny and cute).

At Laguna Seca Rob Ianucci (the big kahuna at Team Obsolete) brought
the six, the ex-Renzo Pasolini 350 Benelli four cylinder, the
ex-Giacomo Agostini MV Agusta 500 triple, an MV Agusta 500 four
cylinder, the Rod Coleman AJS triple-cam 350 single, and the Dick Mann
BSA Rocket 3 (upon which Dick won Daytona).  Other than updated tires
(the 80/90x18 Avon (Avon is one of the TO sponsors) on the front of
the six is noticeably wider than the fender, but it appears to be the
smallest Avon available) and some stickers of Team Obsolete sponsors
the bikes look to be quite original.  The BSA does have a belt-drive
primary conversion (which I got quite familiar with when I helped Dave
Roper fix the well-toasted clutch Sunday morning), but that is pretty
much the major deviation from stock on the bikes.

David Aldana rode the MV-4 in Friday's vintage practice, but dropped
it in slow turn 2 after interfacing with some oil dropped by one of
the other exotics (which shall remain nameless, but if the assembly
error it was suffering from had happened on a "modern" four-stroke
race bike it would have puked some oil too).  Luckily, the MV
experienced only cosmetic damage (as did David's brand new "bones"
leathers), but was banished to the container to hide for the rest of
the weekend.

The six makes the most wonderfully horrible noise - it is LOUD!  The
350 Benelli is noticeably deeper in pitch even though it revs pretty
high (though lower in RPM than the six, which is warmed up at ~10-11K
RPM!).  The MV is a typical 4 cylinder in sound, and the BSA has the
bellow characteristic of the 750 triples.  The AJS doesn't sound
different from a standard 7R, and is a bit overwhelmed by the other
works bikes.

When the six is fired up people come from all over the pits to listen
to it, and I wasn't surprised to find the wide grin on my face
duplicated by many other people as we listened to the "whoop-whoop" as
the six was warmed up.

The drill on Saturday and Sunday was as follows: the bikes were
started in the pits and ridden to the hot pit where they were lined up
and stopped, and Bill Spencer did a short interview with each rider. 
After this the Honda was sent out and given about a 3/4 lap lead
before each of the other bikes was sent out about 40 seconds apart. 
The order was Honda, Benelli, MV, BSA and AJS.  After a lap the bikes
lined up on the track and another short interview was done.
 They went out for another lap, with the Honda leading off and the
other four bikes going together.  They returned to the grid and staged
for a group  hot start and were given two laps so that they could
traverse the front straight at speed (great fun!).  After this is was
off to the victory circle for more interviews and photo ops, and then
back to the pits. 

I was very pleased to be selected as an offical TO "pusher" for both
days.  This involved pushing the bike/rider for starts, standing
behind the rider during the interviews (in my official Team Obsolete
hat and shirt), carrying a TO cap for the rider to wear whilst sans
helmet, and then pushing the bike back to the pits.  I was quick on
the draw and snagged the Honda on Saturday, but had to let one of the
others have it for Sunday, and so ended up with the Benelli (what a
second choice!).  I'm looking forward to seeing my picture in the
magazines - another minute or two of fame (such as it is).

The Team Obsolete pits were about half way between the main pit gate
and the track, and this area is slightly downhill from the track.  I
suppose I should have pushed the bikes back to the pits, exhibiting
the decorum appropriate to my exalted task, but I'll have to admit to
succumbing to temptation.  As soon as I had a clear shot to the TO
pits I mounted the bikes, and with a quick paddle took them for a
short test ride.  Granted, the engines weren't running, but hey, I'll
take what I can get.

Test ride report:  

Both bikes steered lightly but with great precision.  The controls
fell readily to hand and foot, and the front brake on the Benelli was
a bit more sudden than the Honda.  Surprisingly, the Honda, while
being the more compact overall of the two bikes had the more
comfortable riding position.  Renzo Pasolini must have had short or
very limber legs, as the pegs are noticeably higher than on the Honda.

As you might imagine, I told Rob that I'd be glad to help out again
when next the bikes get to my area.

The riders:  

My introduction to Jim Redman started with a minor case
of mistaken identity on my part.  On Thursday I heard him talking
about the Honda, and with the accent figured he could only be one of
two people.  I walked up and asked if he was Nobby Clark (former Honda
works mechanic, now no longer associated with TO).  My 50% likelihood
of being right matched my luck in the lottery (zero) and I was
informed that I was speaking to Jim Redman.  He was nice about it, and
I had a small chat with him, during which he graciously allowed me to
show him a picture of my Honda CR216 vintage racer. When I mentioned
how my Honda was also quite noisy (135dB) he told me an amusing
anecdote:  he said that when they were at the GPs and time came to
start the bikes they would often line them all up with the exhausts
pointed towards the Yamaha pits, and would proceed to share the
exhaust noise with their opponents.  Dirty pool, that.  

I was also interested to note that Redman was a "full-size" rider,
especially when compared to many of the other GP riders of the day
(such as Luigi Taveri, Billy Ivy, etc).

I had several talks with David Aldana, and found him quite an 
engaging guy.  We talked about riding our BSA dirt bikes, and when he
was taking notes on the different bikes and remarked on the fabricated
triple clamps on the MVs and BSA I showed him some pictures of the
sheetmetal clamps I made for my Laverda, which he seemed to find of
some interest.

Yvon duHamel was "my" rider on Sunday, and while we didn't talk much
he seemed pretty nice.  As you might expect, he was quite pleased over
the showing his sons were making in the AMA races, and entertained
himself during a photo op at the TO pits by trickling water from his
cup down the back of Aldana's neck.  I was amused when I tried to
collect his cap from him before he went out for more laps - he
insisted on taking it with him, zipped up inside his leathers. I think
he's had enough occasions where he's had to spend time at trackside
that he wanted to be sure to have a hat with him "just in case".

I didn't get a chance to talk with Don Vesco, but as with the others
he's basically just another racer and seemed happy to talk about
bikes, his LSR attempts etc.

Last but not least is Dave Roper.  Everything I've heard about Dave
over the years has indicated that he's quite a nice chap, and I'll
have to admit that I didn't see anything to contradict this.  He's
kept quite busy, as he is a working member of TO as well as their
regular rider, but he seemed to maintain his good spirits in spite of
rushing around doing stuff.

As for the rest of Team Obsolete, Jennifer and Sonia were quite nice
and helpful, running registration, doing the grids, general
administrative tasks, and Jennifer also was a pusher during the
exhibitions.  Erik Green is another friendly sort, and was kept busy
with fettling the different bikes, yet still found time to ride an AJS
7R to second place in the 350GP race.  Rob was a bit harried at times,
but I'm impressed by the deep feeling that he seems to have for the
bikes and vintage racing, and his desire to share these wonderful
bikes (and their riders) with their many fans.

Thanks to Rob and the rest of Team Obsolete for making it all 
possible, and I'm hoping he can arrange for it to happen again next
year.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:40:01 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Intro

Jerry, since you are new I'm going to re-post my request hoping you can
help. I am looking to acquire a CL72 to race in AHRMA MX. Cosmetics is not
a concern but would like a machine that runs. Thanks...

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider on 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400 and 1964 CZ
175 Trials. BMWMOA member, 1974 BMW R90S,
and 1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.)

- ----------
> From: Jerry Erickson 
> To: Vintage-Dirt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: VintDirt Intro
> Date: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 1:13 AM
> 
> New member.  Also new to vintage bikes.  But not new to bikes.  Had 
> these bikes when they were new.  Guess that makes me vintage too.  
> Currently into Pentons, Victors, Cotas, small bore Huskys and Honda 
> Scramblers.  
> 
> Vintage Jerry

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #12
*****************************
VintDirt-digest        Saturday, April 26 1997        Volume 01 : Number 013




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:47:31 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: VintDirt Re: CL for MX

Jerry, tnx for response. I haven't race preped a CL72 but probably wouldn't
use the metal front fender or chain quard. I might fit a pair of CZ forks
as they are Ceriani clones, work good, and are period (legal) items. The
seat fabric is not important but I would probably want to start with a
useable seat base. Also rims would need to be replaced with shoulderless
items and I would need to start with a stock tank unless a plastic or alloy
tank is available. I live in Hickory, 60 miles NW of Charlotte NC but
travel extensively racing AHRMA MX (will be in Bremen GA this weekend.)

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

- ----------
> From: Jerry Erickson 
> To: thebleys@twave.net
> Subject: CL for MX
> Date: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 9:00 PM
> 
> Rick, I don't know of any scramblers fitting that description at the 
> moment.  Should be easy to find as you will not need all the usual hard 
> to find parts that make most CLs expensive.  I'll ask around some of my 
> sources and see if anything turns up.  My three CL72s don't run at the 
> moment but are complete as far as all the parts are there.  Actually, I 
> might know of a bike that is not running but you would want to go thru 
> the motor anyway if you are going to race it.  It is missing the hard to 
> find stuff like fenders, chain guard etc but you would not need that I 
> guess.  He you done a conversion to MX on a CL72 before?  What do you 
> use for forks, shocks, fenders, seat, tank, etc.?  Where are you 
> located?
> 
> Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:53:28 -0700
From: harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Team Obsolete - Exotic Bikes and Riders

How did these bikes do in the dirt?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:09:37 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Team Obsolete - Exotic Bikes and Riders

> Date:          Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:53:28 -0700

> How did these bikes do in the dirt?

Hi Harold,

As I mentioned, the MV500/4 didn't make a very effective dirt bike.  
The exhaust needs to tucked in better for when it goes sliding along 
on its side. 

Michael Green's off track excursion to rip his megaphone off went 
well, but then he's used to MXing a C15 and Ducati 250 Scramler.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:02:56 -0700
From: Jerry Erickson 
Subject: VintDirt XR80 for sale

I have a very nice clasic 79 XR80 for sale.  Good starter bike for small 
tykes, or good collectable.  First kick starter, runs great.  Son grew 
out of it into XR100 and now CR125.  Grows to fast!  Goes to fast also. 
 Anyway, like to get about 500 for the bike if anyone is interested.  
Bike is in Calif bay area.

Thanks,  Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:25:40 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

> Michael, yes, I would appreciate a copy of the article. Reese and I talk on
> occasion and he is aware of my list. BTW, I saw the mention of vintage-dirt
> at ahrma.org. Good going. N
> 
> Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials

Hello Rick,

The article is from the 01/68 issue of Cycle, written by Dave Ekins, 
and details his conversion of various CLs into an "exciting boonie 
racer".

I have it on the site at:

www.eurospares.com/cl1.jpg
through cl5.jpg

It isn't linked in, so you'll have to request each page directly.  
I'll leave it on for 3 or 4 days before deleting the article.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:27:48 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

Michael, way cooolll. My HP is merrily printing as I write. This is just
what I need. Watchout you CZ twin-pipes. Premier Lightweight will never be
the same!! Many thanks and BTW mentioned you to Chuck and Hoss at The
Company in Hickory. Both have use your ignitions.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

- ----------
> From: Michael Moore 
> To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Cc: vjmc@hyperreal.com
> Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72
> Date: Wednesday, April 23, 1997 4:25 PM
> 
> > Michael, yes, I would appreciate a copy of the article. Reese and I
talk on
> > occasion and he is aware of my list. BTW, I saw the mention of
vintage-dirt
> > at ahrma.org. Good going. N
> > 
> > Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
> 
> Hello Rick,
> 
> The article is from the 01/68 issue of Cycle, written by Dave Ekins, 
> and details his conversion of various CLs into an "exciting boonie 
> racer".
> 
> I have it on the site at:
> 
> www.eurospares.com/cl1.jpg
> through cl5.jpg
> 
> It isn't linked in, so you'll have to request each page directly.  
> I'll leave it on for 3 or 4 days before deleting the article.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide
for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:15:34 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

> Michael, way cooolll. My HP is merrily printing as I write. This is just
> what I need. Watchout you CZ twin-pipes. Premier Lightweight will never be
> the same!! Many thanks and BTW mentioned you to Chuck and Hoss at The
> Company in Hickory. Both have use your ignitions.

Hello Rick,

I at one time considered doing a CB160 scrambler for P.L. 250, as the 
engine is much lighter, and as we've proven with my roadracer 216cc 
displacement isn't difficult to achieve while maintaining 
reliability.  The possibility of installing a 5 speed from a 175 
didn't hurt either.

The problem is the frame on the 160 is too road-racerish, and by the
time I put some Betors with a 21" front wheel on it had about 35-40
degrees of rake.  I started trimming a frame back (I'll have to dig
out a picture and post) to make some "period" modifications for
increased dirtworthiness and eventually decided that the 10% or so
of the stock frame that was left when I was done wasn't going to be
very protest proof.

I keep meaning to make some RITA kits for the 160/175 twins and the 
100/125 vertical singles but haven't gotten to it yet.  I've talked 
with some people about the CB72/77 but that goofy middle-of-the-cam 
advancer mechanism really complicates the conversion.  

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:35:04 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

Michael, 

Oh boy, this is gonna be fun...  Let's see, how much can I stretch "period
modifications". CZ forks, clamps, and hubs (in stock), DID rims, Buch
spokes, Works shocks, maybe my friends at Fast Company will build me a CF
seat pan. Now I just need the motor and frame; still waiting for one to
"cyber" appear.

BTW, just came in from garage. Sunday I tore the top end off my 1964 CZ 125
Trials (looks like your pix with Dick Mann's bike) and found blowby around
the head gasket. Cut one out of gasket material, gooped everything, back
together, the thing still wouldn't start reliably every time. Charged the
6V battery and found it would not hold charge (4.5v). Bought a new battery
from Chuck at The Company, just installed it and the bike starts with
minimal kick. Hurrah.

Gonna take it to Bremen this weekend and compete in Trials on Sunday.
Hopefully my 125 and 400 CZs will be ready for Saturday. The 400 needed a
complete rebuild of bottom and both needed pistons. We'll see.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:37:59 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

> Oh boy, this is gonna be fun...  Let's see, how much can I stretch "period
> modifications". CZ forks, clamps, and hubs (in stock), DID rims, Buch
> spokes, Works shocks, maybe my friends at Fast Company will build me a CF
> seat pan. Now I just need the motor and frame; still waiting for one to
> "cyber" appear.

Hello Rick,

I don't see any eligibility problem with the CZ forks/wheels, but
the CZ forks and axles are a bit on the spindly side.  If I recall
correctly the bearings are sleeved down to take smaller OD axles, and
I made new bearing spacers to allow bigger axles to be used (and/or
changed out the bearings) on the set of CZ wheels I have.  

From the article it sounds like it might be worthwhile bracing the 
frame a bit.  The tube the headsteady attaches to should go back to 
where the seat rails connect to the top frame tube, but it looks like 
that might prevent insertion/removal of the engine.  I wish that 
Ekins had said just where the frame tube tends to break.  

Also, think about adding external brackets to support the outside end 
of the swing arm pivot pin, as is commonly done to narrow-case Ducati 
singles.

The 52.3" stock wheelbase sounds a bit short, so some swingarm 
lengthing might be in order, but check the WB after you install the 
longer forks.  You may also want to put longer shocks on to keep the 
front end rake out of the chopper range.

Of course, I'll expect a nice picture for the web site when you are done.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:09:32 -0400
From: "thebleys" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72

Michael,

Good suggestions; I usually enjoy the trip more than the destination. Will
keep you appraised of  my progress. thanks

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, avid MX and Trials
rider 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 175 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
1980 Ducati Darmah SS (for sale $5,500.) 
Hickory (western North Carolina)

- ----------
> From: Michael Moore 
> To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: VintDirt CL72
> Date: Wednesday, April 23, 1997 8:37 PM
> 
> > Oh boy, this is gonna be fun...  Let's see, how much can I stretch
"period
> > modifications". CZ forks, clamps, and hubs (in stock), DID rims, Buch
> > spokes, Works shocks, maybe my friends at Fast Company will build me a
CF
> > seat pan. Now I just need the motor and frame; still waiting for one to
> > "cyber" appear.
> 
> Hello Rick,
> 
> I don't see any eligibility problem with the CZ forks/wheels, but
> the CZ forks and axles are a bit on the spindly side.  If I recall
> correctly the bearings are sleeved down to take smaller OD axles, and
> I made new bearing spacers to allow bigger axles to be used (and/or
> changed out the bearings) on the set of CZ wheels I have.  
> 
> From the article it sounds like it might be worthwhile bracing the 
> frame a bit.  The tube the headsteady attaches to should go back to 
> where the seat rails connect to the top frame tube, but it looks like 
> that might prevent insertion/removal of the engine.  I wish that 
> Ekins had said just where the frame tube tends to break.  
> 
> Also, think about adding external brackets to support the outside end 
> of the swing arm pivot pin, as is commonly done to narrow-case Ducati 
> singles.
> 
> The 52.3" stock wheelbase sounds a bit short, so some swingarm 
> lengthing might be in order, but check the WB after you install the 
> longer forks.  You may also want to put longer shocks on to keep the 
> front end rake out of the chopper range.
> 
> Of course, I'll expect a nice picture for the web site when you are done.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide
for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:57:20 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Modified CL160 frame for MX

I've just put on the web site a couple of photos of a Honda CL160 
frame that I started modifying for the AHRMA Premier Lightweight MX 
class.  I abandoned the project after deciding that I'd pushed the 
"stock frame with period modifications" rule a bit farther then some 
people might let me get away with.  Not that it couldn't have been 
done in the period, mind you.

The photos are at the bottom of the first section of the graphics page, 
where my project bikes are grouped.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:25:10 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Cota for sale

This came through on the observed trials list.

Cheers,
Michael
*****************

From:          dearmonp@ms4.aes.com (DeArmond, Paul)
To:            mc-trials@lne.com (motorcycle trials web page)
Date:          Sat, 26 Apr 1997 14:51:44 -0700
Subject:       for sale


1974 123 Cota
Complete,  Good condition. Needs rubber.
asking $625.00

Ask  for Gary 714-731-4840

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #13
*****************************
VintDirt-digest          Sunday, May 4 1997          Volume 01 : Number 014




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:05:07 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt ISP difficulties for the lists

My ISP (Sirius) had the mail server crash and out of service all last 
night, so that is why some of you didn't see any traffic on the lists 
for awhile.  They say that no mail was lost - only delayed.

Sorry for the interruption in service.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:49:29 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt More pictures

I've been scanning away this morning, so here are the latest 
additions to the web site:

A picture of a Marly Drixyl-chassised CB72 Honda road racer.
A great action shot of Joel Robert on a twin-pipe CZ motocrosser. An
engine blueprint for a Bridgestone 175 rotary valve twin. The articles
that Gordon Jennings did for Cycle World on building a 250 Ducati road
racer.

They are all available from links on the graphics page.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #14
*****************************
VintDirt-digest          Friday, May 16 1997          Volume 01 : Number 015




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:37:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dan Hankerson 
Subject: [none]

index vint-list

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:20:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dan Hankerson 
Subject: VintDirt fork oil

Been trying to get my flat tracker going. I need help with the forks..
I got a 250 can-am in a cheney frame with cheiani forks. Don't even know
if I spelled that right. Can't find any numbers on the forks. The question
is how much oil to put in and what wt. of oil. Any help out there.
                   dan

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #15
*****************************
VintDirt-digest          Sunday, May 18 1997          Volume 01 : Number 016




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 05:52:37 -0400
From: Harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt-digest V1 #15

Cerrani, I belive.  Dan, I've used automatic transmission fluid type 'F'
in tons of forks for about 25 years with good result.  ATF handles some
fairly heavy loads, but is not too viscous to damp too much.  I have a
set of Cerrani's on a bike which calls for 240cc of juice.  One nice
thing about the ATF, you can afford to experiment with the quantity.

There's a common myth out there that the amount of oil varies the
dampening.  Not true in forks which have enough oil in them.  That is to
say, if the forks don't have enough oil, dampening will be affected in
the same way that not having enough oil in an engine will affect oil
pressure.

The penalty for having too little oil in the forks is cavitation
(bubbles and gurgling)  Too much oil is nothing to worry about unless
you have WAY  too much, in which case you might encounter hydraulic
lock.  But less than 300 cc you souldn't have anything to worry about.

BTW, I've assumed that your fork tubes are 35mm which they probably are.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 05:53:45 -0400
From: Harold 
Subject: VintDirt Re: SL-350 Forks

I need a set of fork tubes for my SL-350, 1971, K2.  Anybody outther got
sum?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:06:46 -0400
From: Henrik Broen 
Subject: VintDirt Bultaco Matador numbers

I have just found a Bultaco Matador 350 cc -75 model, partly 
dismanteled. What puzzels me is that engine and frame nos dont tally. 
Engine no is JM 14000244 which I think is correct for the model. Frame 
no, though, I think is for a -75 Sherpa (JB 15101416). Not so strange 
that somebody have swopped engine, you might say, but the frame is 
obviously genuine Matador, correct fittings and all. Any suggestions ? 
Maybe the spanish guy stamping frame numbers had too much wine the day 
my frame passed ?
- -- 
Best wishes
Henrik Broen
Solvangvn. 20
5500 Haugesund
Norway
Tel.:  + (47) 52 71 67 56  /  + (47) 52 85 25 66
Fax.:  + (47) 52 85 08 98
Homepage (motorcycle trials):  http://home.sol.no/broen/
E-mail:  broen@online.no

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 17:52:03 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt New club listing

Speaking of Husqvarnas, I've just added a listing to my club links 
page for the Husky club.  There is a link to a nice page with lots of 
Husky pictures/history stuff, and the guy who runs the club also has 
some tools/parts for sale.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:34:10 -0400
From: Harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt Bultaco Matador numbers

Bultaco:  Good possiblity.  Drop some e-mail to Tim Hughs, of Hugh's
bultaco who knows quite about about this stuff.  His address:
bultaco@epix.net

Your gusee about the wine might not be all that farfetched.  Toward the
end, bultaco got pretty desperate to turn bikes out, while they were
being hounded by the labour unions.  too bad.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:49:57 -0500
From: Fred Hunter 
Subject: VintDirt XL-500S  strange oil leak

Maybe one of you folks can help me with an unusual problem with my Honda
XL-500S single cyl. on/off road bike.  The PO said its been stored for
about a dozen years.  After doing the usual stuff (change oil, clean out
carb and gas tank, set valves and timing, etc), the bike runs just
fine-doesn't even smoke.  But it's doing something rather unusual: it
has a fairly generous oil leak from somewhere high up on the head.  

The symptom is that after a short run, say 4-5 miles, the well in which
the spark plug resides fills up with oil!  Can't see any obvious place
from which it might be leaking.  Could it be coming from the cam/rocker
shaft cover area?  If so, it must be leaking back behind the sparkplug,
in that recessed, hard-to-see-into "cavern" between the rocker shafts.

Don't have a manual on this bike-wish I did!  Anybody ever run into a
problem like this before?

F. Hunter
CX-650T
CB-92
and now, for something completely different, an XR-500S

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 08:28:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Murray 
Subject: Re: VintDirt-digest V1 #15

 
> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:20:17 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Dan Hankerson 
> Subject: VintDirt fork oil
> 
> Been trying to get my flat tracker going. I need help with the forks..
> I got a 250 can-am in a cheney frame with cheiani forks. Don't even know
> if I spelled that right. Can't find any numbers on the forks. The question
> is how much oil to put in and what wt. of oil. Any help out there.
>                    dan

They're spelled Ceriani.

The usual deal for forks is to take out the springs, bottom the forks
and fill them with oil to 6 inches from the top of the tubes.
This would make a good starting point if you can't get any specs.
Forks back then used heavier oil than they do now, I'd start
with 15 or 20 weight.


The local (San Jose Ca) paper has a '74 Montessa VR 250 for sale
for $500 (runs grt, new tires).  Also a '74 Honda CR125.  (408) 438-8047

Anyone have a Montessa street bike for sale, or decent bodywork for
a '82 Maico 250 or 490?


- -- 
   Eric Murray  ericm@lne.com         Privacy through technology!
  Network security and encryption consulting.    PGP keyid:E03F65E5 

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #16
*****************************
VintDirt-digest         Tuesday, May 20 1997         Volume 01 : Number 017




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 12:40:00 -0400
From: Harold 
Subject: Re: VintDirt-digest V1 #15

I defer to Eric's spelling:  a trip out to my Ceriani-equipped bike (a
hercules GS-250 confirms his spelling.

My experience with fork oil is strictly off road, so I just as well
defer to his viscosity recomendation.  However, I'll stick with my rec
of about 250 cc.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:32:57 EDT
From: unklneil@juno.com (Neil J Novack)
Subject: Re: VintDirt XL-500S  strange oil leak

I think that it's a common trait of the XL series. My XL 250 leaked oil
from the head area for years.
When I got it, the previous owner had tried to patch it with Yamabond,
(or something similar), and 
it had been working for a year or so. He was a wrench at a honda shop,
and said it was common.
I got it fixed at another shop.  Seems there's not a gasket up there
somewheres, and the surfaces don't stay well mated forever. The Honda
shop didn't even show a gasket on the microfilche.  But it can be
stopped...good luck
Neil


On Sat, 17 May 1997 23:49:57 -0500 Fred Hunter 
writes:
>Maybe one of you folks can help me with an unusual problem with my 
>Honda
>XL-500S single cyl. on/off road bike.  The PO said its been stored for
>about a dozen years.  After doing the usual stuff (change oil, clean 
>out
>carb and gas tank, set valves and timing, etc), the bike runs just
>fine-doesn't even smoke.  But it's doing something rather unusual: it
>has a fairly generous oil leak from somewhere high up on the head.  
>
>The symptom is that after a short run, say 4-5 miles, the well in 
>which
>the spark plug resides fills up with oil!  Can't see any obvious place
>from which it might be leaking.  Could it be coming from the 
>cam/rocker
>shaft cover area?  If so, it must be leaking back behind the 
>sparkplug,
>in that recessed, hard-to-see-into "cavern" between the rocker shafts.
>
>Don't have a manual on this bike-wish I did!  Anybody ever run into a
>problem like this before?
>
>F. Hunter
>CX-650T
>CB-92
>and now, for something completely different, an XR-500S
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:25:55 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Hondless

Another vintage dirtbike article is on a CB77 Super Hawk that was 
shoehorned into a 1960 250 Matchless frame (the lightweight Matchless 
wasn't, from what I've read, much of a gem).   

The bike used 19/18" wheels, had a Bates desert seat (I've got one
of these on my 500 Matchless) and weighed 305 pounds.  The engine
used a Bendix magneto and Webco valve train, with stock scrambler
pipes and an early version of the K&N filter.

The reviewer seemed to like the bike a lot, and thought it ran and 
handled well.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #17
*****************************
VintDirt-digest        Wednesday, May 21 1997        Volume 01 : Number 018




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:25:54 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Trailbike racing

AHRMA has already got more than enough vintage MX classes, but I've 
occasionally thought that a 100cc trailbike class could be fun.

While looking through some old magazines tonight I came across a
roadtext of a Van Tech framed Yamaha 80 Trailmaster (rotary valve
model).  Oddly enough, the only number supplied in the road test is
the 1/4 mile time of 24 seconds.  I'm sure the bike was probably
pretty light, and I'd guess about a 50" wheelbase.

Van Tech also made versions with 99cc and 125cc McCullough go-kart 
engines which I believe used a standard kart-type centrifugal clutch 
instead of a gearbox.

Other interesting bikes in the class would be early Hodakas (of
course - the King of the Desert Trailbikes) and S90 Hondas were
pretty popular among the mini-thumper lovers.  80cc Suzukis, 90cc
Kawasakis, Zundapp 100cc ISDT Replicas, Sachs 80cc Boondockers,
Harley 100cc Bajas, etc all had their adherents.

Did any of you race a trailbike in the mid-to-late 1960s?  If so, 
let's hear some stories.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:26:59 -0700
From: Jared Bates 
Subject: VintDirt first dirt bike

My first dirt bike was a 90 cc Moto Beta.  I believe it was around 1967.  I
had ridden various Bonanza mini-bikes, and trail bikes, before my Dad said
to get a "real" bike.  I wanted to get a Yamaha 250 DT-1, they had just
come out and people were snapping them up!   But back in the corner of the
sporting goods store, which was the Yamaha dealer at the time, was this
dust covered little red and silver dirt bike.  I asked the salesperson what
it was, and he said " some hot Italian trail bike, I'l make you a great
deal on it, and throw in a case of chainsaw oil"  how much? I asked, $330
out the door.  Well, I lied to my Dad, and told him that the lights and
stuff would be mailed to me from the Factory, I knew this was no street
legal bike! but I had to have it!  I told him I would ride it home and
waited until he left and started it up.  Holy Moses!! this was my first
experiance with an expansion pipe, it was the loudest thing I have ever
heard! even to this day!, it was a good thing I lived in a relativly small
town (Medford, Oregon) at the time, as I would have never made it home.  I
got near my house, killed the motor and coasted into the driveway.  For the
next two years, I rode that bike almost every weekend in the mountains, on
the fire roads and had a blast!  I had convinced my dad that it was
dangerous riding on the street and I should just ride in the dirt, and take
the bus to school.  I think he knew the real story!  It was a good thing
nothing ever broke or fell off the bike, because I could never get parts,
and the dealer wanted nothing to do with me or Moto Beta.  Finally, I took
the motor out of the frame, (why do kids always do that?) with the
intention of putting rings in it, but first, had to start it up without the
exhaust pipe on it, to hear what it would sound like!, sounded just like a
chainsaw! I never rebuilt it and it sat around until my Mom sold it in a
garage sale.  By then,  I was interested in other things.  But like your
first love, you always remember your first real motorcycle!
I sure wish I had that MB back
now!...............................................

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:28:57 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt first dirt bike

> My first dirt bike was a 90 cc Moto Beta.  I believe it was around 1967.  I

Hello Jared,

The 11/65 CW with the Yamaha 80 Van Tech article also had a test of 
the 125cc Moto Beta XTR which was a "street scrambler".  22mm 
Dell'Orto carb, 4 speed trans and 65+ mph with the street sprocket.  
19" wheels front and rear, high pipe, short travel suspension for a 
dirt bike and a 180# weight with street gear and dual seat.  The 
closing line was "Not glamour, just the bread and butter role of a 
well designed motorcycle".

I'll watch for a smaller dirt version road test.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:58:38 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt CR216 article and Dunstall registry

> Tell us about the performance of your CB160, Michael!   
>Thanks,  Bill Silver

Being the obliging soul that I am, I've just added an article to my
web site on my CR216 Honda vintage road racer.

In addition, I've added a link to the Dunstall Owners' Register home
page to the club links page.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:34:44 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Bike for sale

I've just added a "for sale" page to my web site, and I've got a 
friend's special framed XL250 MX bike listed on it, with picture.  
You can find it off the main page, near the bottom of the page.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #18
*****************************
VintDirt-digest         Thursday, May 29 1997         Volume 01 : Number 019




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 06:30:03 -0700
From: hcp17@ix.netcom.com
Subject: VintDirt intro

My name is Bob Lovell.  I own a 77 125 Maico and a 73 Hodaka Combat
Wombat.  My next project is a 74 Husky 125 that I will be racing in
Steamboat at the AHRMA races in Sept.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:18:30 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt intro

> My name is Bob Lovell.  I own a 77 125 Maico and a 73 Hodaka Combat
> Wombat.  My next project is a 74 Husky 125 that I will be racing in
> Steamboat at the AHRMA races in Sept.

Hello Bob, and welcome to the list.

I had a 1972 125 Maico that I bought new in Albuquerque.  The local 
dealer, Bob's MX and Kart Shop, brought in 3 of them, and as I recall 
it cost me about $1200 at the time, making it about the most 
expensive of the 125s (a bit more than the Husky and Penton I think).

The Maico was very nice, though like with the Sachs and Zundapps you
had to keep an eye on the shifter mechanism to keep the number of
false neutrals under control.  I junked the stock front wheel (which
cam with a pretty useless 2.5" front tire that had to be run at 30
psi to keep from collapsing the steel rim) and installed a conical
front wheel from the then new DT2MX.   Brakes that stopped - what an 
idea!

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:21:05 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Another reason why bikes are better than cars

I ran across this poem by an anonymous UK rider today:

Oh damsel fair, beware the car
Where seating space is wider far
Than any man of reason needs
Except to further his misdeeds.
The steering column change eschew
No good can come of it for you-
And likewise any motor shun
From which you can't bale out and run.

Let maiden modesty decide
To take a summer evening ride
On Something of the cycle breed
For virtue's friend was ever speed
No vulpine sibilance can come
From guileless lips of goggled chum.

With passion he is never dizzy
(his motor keeps him far too busy)
And even dual seats preclude
The acrobatic interlude.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 05:21:04 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Admin Absence

I'll be out of town Friday and Saturday so if the list blows up there
won't be anyone around to try and fix it.  See you in a couple of
days.

Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:26:51 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Kicking people off the list

> By the way...did you throw me off all of your new lists ... I
> haven't gotten any mail for awhile.

I checked and you aren't currently subscribed.  Some ISPs seem to
bounce up and down, disappear for awhile (as far as the mailing
process goes), can't recognize their own subscribers, people go away
on vacation and their mailboxes get full, etc.  I think this is a
fairly widespread problem.  I'll let a subscriber go for 2-3 days of
bounces, but after that I presume that the email address is terminal
(usually after trying a direct message that gets bounced) and
unsubscribe the person.  If you are in digest mode on my lists you
should be getting a couple of digests a week minimum, so if you don't
get anything after a bit you might drop me a direct email to check.
I've had my ISP contact me to have people unsubscribed when the
bounces get very heavy (ie lots of list traffic).

Sorry for the inconvenience, but MY mailbox starts getting filled up
with bounce messages, and I have to look at each one to see if they
are different people or just one.

I now have instructions on subscribing for all five lists on their own
page on the web site.  I'll see if I can come up with an easy way to
get the digests on the web site, but you can always mail me and let me
know the last digest/message you got and I'll send you the digests you
missed.

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #19
*****************************
VintDirt-digest         Saturday, May 31 1997         Volume 01 : Number 020




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 19:26:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dan Hankerson 
Subject: VintDirt cheney frame

Does anybody have a Jerry Cheney flat track frame out there? Ive got the 
narrow front end crowns. Will the Good Year tires fit?
          1974 Frame and can-am motor.
                           dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:50:11 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: VintDirt cheney frame

> Does anybody have a Jerry Cheney flat track frame out there? Ive got the 
> narrow front end crowns. Will the Good Year tires fit?
>           1974 Frame and can-am motor.
>                            dan

Hello Dan,

Jerry Cheney?  The only Cheney I know of that did frames was/is Eric 
Cheney in England.  Then again,  it seems like I've seen reference to 
Cheney flat track frames, and it has always puzzled me, since I 
doubted that Eric Cheney had the dirt-track experience to build 
something appropriate to dirt-track (by experience I refer to what DT 
needed for geometry, weight distribution, etc, not experience in 
building frames of which he no doubt has a surplus).

If there is another Cheney making frames in the States I'd be 
interested in hearing some details.

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:59:24 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Lots more pictures on the web site

The latest addition is an entire section devoted to some of the 2, 3
and 4 wheeled racing vehicles (and a 120 mph race-vehicle transporter)
constructed by former GP sidecar racer/constructor Rudi Kurth.

There are Kurth CAT sidecar outfits with BMW twin Rennsport four
stroke and Crescent and Yamaha 3 cylinder (yes, Yamaha) two stroke
engines.  The solos are Yamaha and Crescent triple powered
semi-kneelers, and the four wheelers include Alfa and Fiat racers, as
well as the CATVAN and several solar-powered racing vehicles.

I've also set up a separate page for the line of composite chassised
bicycles that Rudi makes.

Cool stuff - check it out.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 20:57:52 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: VintDirt Another picture

I just added a picture of a neat works 1963 Aermacchi 250 scrambler
with dual cradle frame.  It's at the top of the dirt bike section on
the graphics page.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of VintDirt-digest V1 #20
*****************************




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