Motorcycle Chassis Design Digest #741-750






MC-Chassis-Dgst       Wednesday, August 26 1998       Volume 01 : Number 741



 1. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel
 2. Neil Collins  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis various flavours of steel tubing
 3. Neil Collins  Subj: MC-Chassis Re: Members - Please forgive my mistake  
 4. Ian Drysdale      Subj: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 5. Mitch Casto   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 6. Mitch Casto   Subj: MC-Chassis Online Motorcycle Bookstore Site
 7. jmark.vanscoter@amd.com              Subj: RE: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 8. jmark.vanscoter@amd.com              Subj: RE: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 9. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: MC-Chassis thumper racers
10. David Weinshenker   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel
11. Marty Maclean     Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Online Motorcycle Bookstore Site
12. "Gary Beale"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:02:15 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel

> 
> > Regarding the wheel change from 21" to 19"...
> 
> One interesting characteristic was that it had absolutely
> no tendency to stand up and run wide on the brakes, but was
> perfectly happy to spiral in tighter with the brakes clamped
> hard.
> 
On this aspect I have had the requirement to become adjusted to the
stand up tendency on a BMW K75s.  The first corner that caught my
attention was on a particularly twisty road in the Vermont mountains.
(East to West in this state is a single track riders delight, with
roads that are frequently closed in winter).   One particularly sharp
turn required some adjustment, so I squeezed a bit harder on the
front binder and was stood up like a paper doll.  I was completely
suprised!  Releasing the lever allowed a resumption of the necessary
lean angles, with continued progress.  This bike being a new
acquisition, I had not had opportunity to investigate this aspect of
handling prior to the event. 
	 With this understanding of reactions, subsequent application of
brakes in corners was anticipated and caused no real difficulty, 
just one more detail to be aware of.

	The comparison is with the Moto Morini I usually ride.  With the MM,
there would be NO reaction to increased brakes except to slow down,
(or slide out).
Commenting on this item was Rob Lentini, the director of the BMW
riders group.
His mention that this reaction is characteristic of wide tires has me
wondering.  100/90's on the MM and the BMW!  Avons for the former,
Metzler, the latter.  The BMW has nearly double the loading, with a
much higher center of mass. 
	 I understand much of the reaction of forces thru the tire contact
patch, but have not warmed to the dramatic differences in this
example, or specific changes that would modify this behavior.

If this subject has been a topic of list discussion could someone
steer me to the date?  I started looking at the archives, but ran out
of time in that session.
Else, shall this be a discussion?  Others have indicated knowledge in
this regard in past postings, without specifics.

Regards

Calvin Grandy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:17:12 +0930
From: Neil Collins 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis various flavours of steel tubing

At 01:49 PM 8/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Neil wrote:
>>Previous recommendations to me have been 1.6mm or 0.065 inches or 16 swg
>for
>>ERW mild steel brazed welded for my first home built frame!
>
>Hello Neil,
>
>FWIW: just some info on tube sizes for 60's racers I've found:
>- Rickman frames: Reynolds 531 tube; 1 1/4" OD; 16 swg
>- Rob North triple chassis: T45 tube; 1 1/4" OD; 17 swg
>- Seeley MK1: Reynolds 531 tube; 1 1/4" OD; 16 swg
>- Seeley MK2-4; Reynolds 531 tube; 1 1/8" OD 17swg
>For a classic double loop frame 1" OD seems a bit small to me! The "Yamsel"
>
> TD2 and TR2 were made out of the MK3 Seeley frames!, so I would guess that
>28mm OD x 1,5mm would be a good bet for your TD1C.
>I had bought some lengths 32x1.5mm seamless mild steel tube for my (long
>running)
>Kawa H1 project. Cost was approx. $5,50/mtr here in Holland, (CrMo is
>unobtainable).
>
>Hope this helps,
>Gotta go, must finish the tank mould for my TD1B/YDS5 racer project......
>
>Paul
>
- --------------------------------------------

Hello Paul

Thanks for the above information.

Tell me more about your bikes and tank mould. What stage is your frame,
wheels, emgine at??? What shape is it??? 

Did you ever work out if need for the TD2 engine. I have some new and used
YDS1,2,3,5,6 & TD1A/B/C spares to trade if you need any.

Keep in touch

Neil Collins
South Australia

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:37:33 +0930
From: Neil Collins 
Subject: MC-Chassis Re: Members - Please forgive my mistake  

I have used the mc-chassis-design list by mistake with a private reply to
Paul Keller.

I trust List Members please forgive my mistake for potentially "clogging-up"
the list.

I promise to be more careful with future replies.


Neil Collins
South Australia

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:34:51 +1000
From: Ian Drysdale 
Subject: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

Does anyone know of a site or mailing group for those interested in
RE5 Suzuki rotaries ??  I've had alook thru the normal sites with good
links etc to no avail.

I have a friend with 3 of them - including one with zero miles on the
clock.  It surfaced 2 years ago when a country dealer was cleaning
out the back shed of what was his fathers workshop.  When he found
it under a heap of junk his father said -' could never work out where
that got to .'   Apparently he argued with Suzuki for years that it had
been returned to them  ( as they were hard to sell when new ) but he
had some recollection of putting out the back for a while so the locals
would think it was sold.  It stayed there for 25 years.

BTW - there are a few Norton rotaries in Oz that get dusted off at
post classic meetings etc.   Without exception they go like scoulded
cats !


Cheers  IAN

- --
Ian Drysdale

DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
Melbourne. Australia
http://werple.net.au/~iwd
Ph. + 613 9562 4260
Fax.+ 613 9546 8938

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:22:04 -0400
From: Mitch Casto 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

Hi Ian,

For rotary engined bikes try:

http://www.morley.demon.co.uk/

mitch

Ian Drysdale wrote:

> Does anyone know of a site or mailing group for those interested in
> RE5 Suzuki rotaries ??  I've had alook thru the normal sites with good
> links etc to no avail.
>
>
>
> Cheers  IAN
>
> --
> Ian Drysdale
>
> DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
> Melbourne. Australia
> http://werple.net.au/~iwd
> Ph. + 613 9562 4260
> Fax.+ 613 9546 8938

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:25:28 -0400
From: Mitch Casto 
Subject: MC-Chassis Online Motorcycle Bookstore Site

> Hi everyone,

I just found a nice motorcycle online bookstore site:

http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/merlinbooks/index.htm

mitch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:45:00 -0500
From: jmark.vanscoter@amd.com
Subject: RE: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

Ian asked "Does anyone know of a site or mailing group for those
interested in
RE5 Suzuki rotaries ??  I've had alook thru the normal sites with good
links etc to no avail."

Ian-

Here is another site you may like, it features the Suzuki Rotary and
750GT three cylinder 2 stroke (both slightly odd, related bikes from
about the same era and same minds).

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Wasserbueffel/

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:01:38 -0500
From: jmark.vanscoter@amd.com
Subject: RE: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

Ian, here is another (in your part of the world)--
http://www.3rotor.com/dmrh/dmrh1.htm
Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	VanScoter, JMark 
> Sent:	Wednesday, August 26, 1998 10:45 AM
> To:	mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> Subject:	RE: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
> 
> Ian asked "Does anyone know of a site or mailing group for those
> interested in
> RE5 Suzuki rotaries ??  I've had alook thru the normal sites with good
> links etc to no avail."
> 
> Ian-
> 
> Here is another site you may like, it features the Suzuki Rotary and
> 750GT three cylinder 2 stroke (both slightly odd, related bikes from
> about the same era and same minds).
> 
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Wasserbueffel/
> 
> Mark
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:00:12 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: MC-Chassis thumper racers

I know there are a few thumper racers on the list, so though not 
chassis related I thought I would ask some questions here.
I was reading a review of the new (well new-ish) YZ400, it purportedly 
makes 43 hp at 10,000 stock. That struck me as pretty amazing figures 
for a stock thumper. Now not only is the YZ400 out of my financial 
reach, but it is probably sold well into the forseeable future. Most 
other singles that I looked at signed off waaay before 10k shows on the 
tach and make considerable less power. Now I have heard that SRX will 
make 60-70 hp in fully tuned fairly reliable trim, but the short stroke 
(92x60) of the YZ will probably let it rev out higher. Is it feasible 
to build a short stroke motor, like a tt350 (86x59) bored out to 400 
and get a similar redline? Or is it more trouble than it's worth. 
Should I just save up and get a Husaberg. 
______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:30:15 -0700
From: David Weinshenker 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel

les wrote:
> > upgrades
> > such as the cable-operated disk from the CB200 twin.
> UPGRADE????
> The only thing that would be an upgrade from would be two bars of soap
> attached to the soles of your sneakers!

You're sayin' it's just as well that I got the XL250 front drum to
work OK...?

What attracted me to the CB200 unit was simply that it looked
like the XL250 had an unused lug on the fork slider that
appeared to be just like the caliper fastening on the CB200.
That sort of thing had a powerful influence on me at that stage
of my motorcycle carreer :> (still does...) but I never got as
far as checking the axle & hub fit...

- -dave w

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:24:52 -0700
From: Marty Maclean 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Online Motorcycle Bookstore Site

Mitch Casto wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> 
> I just found a nice motorcycle online bookstore site:
> 
> http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/merlinbooks/index.htm
> 
> mitch

Mitch - 

You must live on your computer...

Marty

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:45:46 -0400
From: "Gary Beale" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

Hi Yousuf.

The answer to your question about building a high revving single is "maybe,
why don't you try it."

I'm currently racing a 500cc thumper (AHRMA,) but have put some thought and
investigation into developing an engine for the 350 class.  I know least
about the Yamaha engine family.  The option I have considered most
thoroughly is the DR engine from Suzuki.  By starting with the short stroke
250 (which is identical to the 350 except for stroke) and running a big bore
piston (readily available) we can come up with 346 CCs.  Install a ported
350 head and we are half way there.  Unfortunately the cam choices are
limited (one from Webcam,) and the top ends are not known for reliability.
This reliability problem would have to be solved in order to get reliable
revs out of the motor.

Plus, if you planned to use a lot of revs you would probably encounter other
reliability problems (pulled head studs, cracked cylinders, clutch and
transmission problems, etc.)  Each of those issues would need to be
addressed and resolved in order to make the motor reliable.  It would likely
take several seasons and lots of money to work the bugs out.  Used more
moderately the "346" would probably work well.

What might work for me (in a road racer) would be a sleeved down (or up!)
YZ400 motor.  While the initial outlay is MUCH higher, the engine is already
pretty well "race ready," and might cost a lot less in the end.  However the
motor is not available as an assembly from Yamaha, and would be very
difficult to find used.  (You can purchase the whole bike for about $5,700)

Fun to think about, but I'll stick with my old Honda motor for now.  When
the cash fairy drops about $10,000 in my lap maybe I'll build a YZ based
road racer.

Gary Beale
gbeale@atlanta.dg.com



>I know there are a few thumper racers on the list, so though not
>chassis related I thought I would ask some questions here.
snip

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #741
******************************


MC-Chassis-Dgst       Wednesday, August 26 1998       Volume 01 : Number 742



 1. Alan Lapp  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 2. "Glenn Thomson"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis master cylinder
 3. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 4. GD             Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 5. "Ray or Emily Brooks"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 6. Andy Overstreet    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel for XT600 street bike
 7. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 8. Les Sharp         Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel
 9. "Michael Moore"   Subj: MC-Chassis New front end
10. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel for XT600 street bik
11. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel
12. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis New front end

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:30:34 +0100
From: Alan Lapp 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

>Plus, if you planned to use a lot of revs you would probably encounter other
>reliability problems (pulled head studs, cracked cylinders, clutch and
>transmission problems, etc.)  Each of those issues would need to be
>addressed and resolved in order to make the motor reliable.  It would likely
>take several seasons and lots of money to work the bugs out.  Used more
>moderately the "346" would probably work well.

Another method to explore would be to start with a 500/600/650 bottom end,
and either re-sleeve or graft the lower displacement cylinder, and have
falicon de-stroke the crank to keep the piston speeds down.

Or, if you want to be really silly, you could keep the big-bore cylinder
and severely de-stroke the crank for the displacement of your choice.  Man,
talk about short stroke.

Al
level_5_ltd@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:53:50 +0000
From: "Glenn Thomson" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis master cylinder

On 26 Aug 98, Mark Mason wrote:

> I need a hand operated master cylinder for vertical (joystick)
> operation. I was thinking a remote reservoir one would do the
> trick. If anyone has any recommendations for one to get (preferably
> on the cheaper side) or where to get one I'd appreciate it. I've
> got an XS650 (almost identical to a SR500 unit) one on now but
> it's leaking due to being vertical (no surprise there). It doesn't
> seem to have any problems with getting air into the lines, which
> is good news.

Consider a rear master cylinder assy from an RD400: the calipers and 
discs were the same front and rear ( handy for those high speed panic 
stops while going backwards....), the master cylinder mounts 
vertically, and it has a remote reservoir.  What's the application?

Cheers,

Glenn
gthomson(at)bserv.com
   Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:46:32 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

> (92x60) of the YZ will probably let it rev out higher. Is it feasible 
> to build a short stroke motor, like a tt350 (86x59) bored out to 400 
> and get a similar redline? Or is it more trouble than it's worth. 
> Should I just save up and get a Husaberg. 

Hello Yousuf,

My friend Craig made some short stroke TT500 RR engines.  He welded 
up the top portion of the pin hole, rebored and ground in the new 
position, and rebalanced/lightened the crank to go with a long 
Carrillo rod and bigger piston.  I think it ended up around 92x75.  

You need to make sure the cylinder head will flow well enough to
justify the high rpm.   If not, all you've gotten is largely a more 
reliable engine as it isn't approaching the piston speed limits as 
closely.

The Husaberg is really light and compact.  I think Craig is doing a 
short stroke 500 Husky with a 350 bottom end and 610/620 whatever 
cylinder.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:07:18 -0700
From: GD 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

   How about using a Husaberg engine.  They make good horsepower and last.
And they are water cooled
                                                          GD


yhakim@m5.sprynet.com wrote:

> I know there are a few thumper racers on the list, so though not
> chassis related I thought I would ask some questions here.
> I was reading a review of the new (well new-ish) YZ400, it purportedly
> makes 43 hp at 10,000 stock. That struck me as pretty amazing figures
> for a stock thumper. Now not only is the YZ400 out of my financial
> reach, but it is probably sold well into the forseeable future. Most
> other singles that I looked at signed off waaay before 10k shows on the
> tach and make considerable less power. Now I have heard that SRX will
> make 60-70 hp in fully tuned fairly reliable trim, but the short stroke
> (92x60) of the YZ will probably let it rev out higher. Is it feasible
> to build a short stroke motor, like a tt350 (86x59) bored out to 400
> and get a similar redline? Or is it more trouble than it's worth.
> Should I just save up and get a Husaberg.
> ______________________________________________________
> Yousuf
> WMMRA 935
> FZR 400/600
>
>         "It's not my fault" - Han Solo
>         "It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian
> ______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:27:36 -0400
From: "Ray or Emily Brooks" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

Michael,
  How reliable was the Husky 510 RR bike you built?? In theory the two
stroke based four stroke should make a light and compact powerplant. I
can't decide if the higher sustained revs of roadracing would help the oil
flow to avoid oiling problems or make the wear worse from higher surface
speeds of the rubbing bits.

Ray

- ----------
> From: Michael Moore 
> To: mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 8:46 PM
> 
> > (92x60) of the YZ will probably let it rev out higher. Is it feasible 
> > to build a short stroke motor, like a tt350 (86x59) bored out to 400 
> > and get a similar redline? Or is it more trouble than it's worth. 
> > Should I just save up and get a Husaberg. 
> 
> Hello Yousuf,
> 
> My friend Craig made some short stroke TT500 RR engines.  He welded 
> up the top portion of the pin hole, rebored and ground in the new 
> position, and rebalanced/lightened the crank to go with a long 
> Carrillo rod and bigger piston.  I think it ended up around 92x75.  
> 
> You need to make sure the cylinder head will flow well enough to
> justify the high rpm.   If not, all you've gotten is largely a more 
> reliable engine as it isn't approaching the piston speed limits as 
> closely.
> 
> The Husaberg is really light and compact.  I think Craig is doing a 
> short stroke 500 Husky with a 350 bottom end and 610/620 whatever 
> cylinder.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical
guide for constructors"
> Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:59:19 -0600 (MDT)
From: Andy Overstreet 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel for XT600 street bike

On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Gary Beale wrote:
    John Bradley's book tells how, and gives comparison
> numbers from other well known bikes.  By going through this little "due
> diligence" exercise you will have some level of confidence how your change
> is going to turn out.
> 
> Gary Beale
> gbeale@atlanta.dg.com

Ah Ha! I knew there had to be a book out there on the subject. Where would
one possibly find a copy of said book, and do you know the title? 
Thanks! 

 Andy Overstreet
Albuquerque, NM USA
"In science, every problem is either trivial or unsolvable.
 But it can take quite a long time to decide for a given 
 problem into which category it belongs."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:01:11 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

>   How reliable was the Husky 510 RR bike you built?? In theory the two
> stroke based four stroke should make a light and compact powerplant. I
> can't decide if the higher sustained revs of roadracing would help the oil
> flow to avoid oiling problems or make the wear worse from higher surface
> speeds of the rubbing bits.

Hello Ray,

Since I don't think it was ever raced, it was probably pretty 
reliable.  The owner of the bike sat on it (after taking delivery) 
decided the top frame rails were too wide, and took his Sawzall to 
the frame, thereby relieving me of any liability concerns.

They do run the oil-pump-less Husky/Husabergs in Baja type races with 
good reliability.  Gary Davis can probably correct me if I'm wrong, 
but I think the new Husabergs and Huskys are now equipped with 
mechanical oil pumps.  They are both amazingly light, especially if 
you are used to TT500s and Rotax singles.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:04:56 +0800
From: Les Sharp 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel

David Weinshenker wrote:
> 
> les wrote:
> > > upgrades
> > > such as the cable-operated disk from the CB200 twin.
> > UPGRADE????
> > The only thing that would be an upgrade from would be two bars of soap
> > attached to the soles of your sneakers!
> 
> You're sayin' it's just as well that I got the XL250 front drum to
> work OK...?
>
What I'm saying is that I had one of those (a CB200) and it closely
emulated the effect of trying to stop by the use of two bars of soap
attached to the soles of my sneakers!
 
> What attracted me to the CB200 unit was simply that it looked
> like the XL250 had an unused lug on the fork slider that
> appeared to be just like the caliper fastening on the CB200.
> That sort of thing had a powerful influence on me at that stage
> of my motorcycle carreer :> (still does...) but I never got as
> far as checking the axle & hub fit...

I very quickly adapted a caliper from a CB250 (or CJ250, I forget) to
fit the 200's forks. Even though it was still the nasty swinging caliper
type, it did stop the bike. The stock brake seemed to make the bike go
faster when applied, so yes, good thing you got the drum to work
properly!
- -- 
Best regards, Les

"Eye pierce heaven, foot stuck in mud"
Planet Gearhead: http://www.inside.com.tw/user/les/conten~1.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:35:14 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: MC-Chassis New front end

Another erroneous admin request bounce:

From: Tom & Gaby 

I have a 1986 VF1000R(big V4 sportbike) that has rake/trail of
28.0degrees/3.9inches and I want to put a newer and adjustable front end
on it.(forks,triple trees,wheel,brakes,etc.) The rake/trail of the newer
bike is 24.0degrees/3.5inches. Also, the new forks are approximately
1.5inches shorter than the old set. I will also be replacing the
swingarm and rear wheel/tire. The new rear wheel/tire combination is
approximately 1-1.5 inches shorter than the old. Is this set up going to
be too #nstable? Can someone point me to a resource where I can
calculate how the changes I want to make will effect handling? I want
the beefier front end, adjustability, and wider wheels. Thanks -Tom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:39:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel for XT600 street bik

>     John Bradley's book tells how, and gives comparison

> Ah Ha! I knew there had to be a book out there on the subject. Where would
> one possibly find a copy of said book, and do you know the title? 
> Thanks! 
 
Hello Andy, 

You make me hang my head in sorrow that all of my advertising efforts 
have been in vain.  All the info is on the website, and I'm the North 
American distributor.

You'll need a copy of Tony and Vic's book too - a link is also on my 
books page.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:39:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel

> type, it did stop the bike. The stock brake seemed to make the bike go
> faster when applied, so yes, good thing you got the drum to work
> properly!

Hello Les,

That is exactly the sensation I had the first time I went into turn 3 
at Sears Point on an RD350 after 4 or 5 years of racing my TT500 
engined bike.  I just rolled off the throttle like usual to drop some 
speed, and the corner came rushing up at me.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:41:43 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis New front end

> on it.(forks,triple trees,wheel,brakes,etc.) The rake/trail of the newer
> bike is 24.0degrees/3.5inches. Also, the new forks are approximately
> 1.5inches shorter than the old set. I will also be replacing the
> swingarm and rear wheel/tire. The new rear wheel/tire combination is
> approximately 1-1.5 inches shorter than the old. Is this set up going to
> be too #nstable? Can someone point me to a resource where I can
> calculate how the changes I want to make will effect handling? I want
> the beefier front end, adjustability, and wider wheels. Thanks -Tom

Hello Tom,

It sounds like the offsets in the triple clamps may be pretty similar 
- - measure the center distances between the stem and a line drawn 
through the center of the fork legs on both sets of clamps to see.  
If you drop the front and rear of the bike a similar amount, you'll 
not see much difference in the geometry numbers.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #742
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst        Friday, August 28 1998        Volume 01 : Number 743



 1. Andy Overstreet    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel for XT600 street bik
 2. "Frank Camillieri"  Subj: MC-Chassis Heat treating
 3. briankk@aimnet.com (Brian Knowles)   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis welding MS to CrMo
 4. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis welding MS to CrMo
 5. batwings@i-plus.net                  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 6. "Gary Beale"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 7. GD             Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
 8. GD             Subj: MC-Chassis Husaberg Web Page
 9. "Griffiths, Duncan"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis master cylinder
10. "Sam Stoney"      Subj: MC-Chassis Husaberg engines
11. eric sherrer  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
12. dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subj: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:32:11 -0600 (MDT)
From: Andy Overstreet 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: smaller front wheel for XT600 street bik

On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Michael Moore wrote:
> You make me hang my head in sorrow that all of my advertising efforts 
> have been in vain.  All the info is on the website, and I'm the North 
> American distributor.
> Michael

I shoulda known that! You'll probably be hearing from me soon for one of
those. Got Tony and Vic's book recently, it's great! 


 Andy Overstreet
Albuquerque, NM USA
"All that glitters has a high refractive index."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:33:16 -0400
From: "Frank Camillieri" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Heat treating

If anyone wants a good book on heat treating, get Bill Bryson's book.
It's call 'Heat Treatment, Selection And Application of Tool Steels'.
You can Email him directly at hisaim@worldpath.net to order it. I've
known Bill for many years and he knows his heat treating.

Frank Camillieri
Chester, NH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:56:01 -0700
From: briankk@aimnet.com (Brian Knowles)
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis welding MS to CrMo

  Joel W. posted:

>Good day to all..
>   I've recently resurrected an old project that has been buried
>for some time. While it is close to completion, it's not quite
>there yet. Out of laziness I guess... I'd like to mate a mild steel
>assembly I have from another bike to the frame in question, which
>is 4130 CrMo.
>  This assembly is basically to support the seat/rider and is
>of no structural importance to the frame of the bike.
>   Any thoughts/suggestions/warnings/techniques etc... in regards to
>joining these two metals?  Or is there nothing to worry about?
>
This is not really a good idea, but if you must, I'd sugguest that you mate
the parts with nickle-bronze welding.  The idea would be to avoid actual
fusion of  either metal.  This would be a case specific solution, do-able
because this is basically a big bracket.

Don't even think about it for structure...

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:52:44 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis welding MS to CrMo

Why not weld on tabs (compatible materials and technique) and bolt on
the "addendum"?  Many of the new bikes do this and makes crash repair
less of an ordeal. This way you could mate alu. to 4130 if that's
what you want.

Regards

Calvin Grandy

- ----------
> From: Brian Knowles 
> To: mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: MC-Chassis welding MS to CrMo
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 8:56 AM
> 
>   Joel W. posted:
> 
> >Good day to all..
> >   I've recently resurrected an old project that has been buried
> >for some time. While it is close to completion, it's not quite
> >there yet. Out of laziness I guess... I'd like to mate a mild
steel
> >assembly I have from another bike to the frame in question, which
> >is 4130 CrMo.
> >  This assembly is basically to support the seat/rider and is
> >of no structural importance to the frame of the bike.
> >   Any thoughts/suggestions/warnings/techniques etc... in regards
to
> >joining these two metals?  Or is there nothing to worry about?
> >
> This is not really a good idea, but if you must, I'd sugguest that
you mate
> the parts with nickle-bronze welding.  The idea would be to avoid
actual
> fusion of  either metal.  This would be a case specific solution,
do-able
> because this is basically a big bracket.
> 
> Don't even think about it for structure...
> 
> Brian
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:39:19
From: batwings@i-plus.net
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

At 12:00 PM 8/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>(92x60) of the YZ will probably let it rev out higher. Is it feasible 
>to build a short stroke motor, like a tt350 (86x59) bored out to 400 
>and get a similar redline? Or is it more trouble than it's worth. 
>Should I just save up and get a Husaberg.

Just right off the top of my head, I have never had any trouble getting
about 6-7 mm more bore into an given motor, and that is all it would take
to make one into a 400. You still might not get 43 ponies, but it would
still probably rev pretty high. Others here may have info on specific
pistons which will be good candidates. 

Best wishes,

Hoyt


Belfab CNC: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html 
Best MC Repair-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html 
Camping/Caving-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
 =>May you live in interesting times <=

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:02:58 -0400
From: "Gary Beale" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

>Michael,
>  How reliable was the Husky 510 RR bike you built?? In theory the two
>stroke based four stroke should make a light and compact powerplant. I
>can't decide if the higher sustained revs of roadracing would help the oil
>flow to avoid oiling problems or make the wear worse from higher surface
>speeds of the rubbing bits.
>
>Ray
>

I've corresponded with Dale Lineaweaver of L&R Racing Products, who I
believe is the US importer, and builds a lot of dirt track racing Husabergs.
He says the Husaberg engines have proven reliable in both off road and dirt
track racing, but are fairly unproven in road racing.  Other sources tell me
that the transmissions sometimes break under hard use.  Older Husabergs have
only "splash" oiling systems.  Around '95 or '96 an oiling system was
installed primarily to be able to offer an oil filtration system.

On the plus side, Husaberg engines offer the best power to weight ratio of
anything commercially available, and are very compact.  They should be able
to equal the power of a Rotax without as much modification, and are readily
available from Dale Lineweaver at:

Email:                               HSBG4ME@AOL.COM
phone / fax:                        510 223-9052

Gary Beale
gbeale@atlanta.dg.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:47:59 -0700
From: GD 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

      I have helped build a Husaberg powered RGV Suzuki chassis.  It is just
know getting up to speed and so far they haven't had any engine problems yet.
It has overheated twice due to the guy who rides it not getting all the air out
of the system.   The guys at L & R Racing have an oil which they developed that
works very well.   The engine seems to be bullet proof.   The engine makes good
power with a lot less work and money than most guys spend on a Yamaha or
Rotax.   If you have any questions e-mail me or Bud Riddle at
briddle96@aol..com     Bud is the R in L & R Racing and is a great guy that can
answer all your questions.   One other thing about the Husaberg engine is that
it is a very compact engine and could lit in a lot of different chassis.
                                                             GD

Gary Beale wrote:

> >Michael,
> >  How reliable was the Husky 510 RR bike you built?? In theory the two
> >stroke based four stroke should make a light and compact powerplant. I
> >can't decide if the higher sustained revs of roadracing would help the oil
> >flow to avoid oiling problems or make the wear worse from higher surface
> >speeds of the rubbing bits.
> >
> >Ray
> >
>
> I've corresponded with Dale Lineaweaver of L&R Racing Products, who I
> believe is the US importer, and builds a lot of dirt track racing Husabergs.
> He says the Husaberg engines have proven reliable in both off road and dirt
> track racing, but are fairly unproven in road racing.  Other sources tell me
> that the transmissions sometimes break under hard use.  Older Husabergs have
> only "splash" oiling systems.  Around '95 or '96 an oiling system was
> installed primarily to be able to offer an oil filtration system.
>
> On the plus side, Husaberg engines offer the best power to weight ratio of
> anything commercially available, and are very compact.  They should be able
> to equal the power of a Rotax without as much modification, and are readily
> available from Dale Lineweaver at:
>
> Email:                               HSBG4ME@AOL.COM
> phone / fax:                        510 223-9052
>
> Gary Beale
> gbeale@atlanta.dg.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:00:30 -0700
From: GD 
Subject: MC-Chassis Husaberg Web Page

   Since all the talk about Husaberg
engines I thought that I would
include L & R Racing's web page.  It
is at
http://members.aol.com/landrrace/

GD

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998  8:04 -0800
From: "Griffiths, Duncan" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis master cylinder

I have a 5/8"-bore Nissin remote reservoir master cylinder with piston   
and lever, no reservoir, and I might have the clamp.  I'd be willing to   
part with it for a fair price if it fits your application.  Email   
privately to duncan.griffiths@horiba.com if interested.
Duncan
=============
From: Mark Mason 
I need a hand operated master cylinder for vertical (joystick)
operation. I was thinking a remote reservoir one would do the
trick. If anyone has any recommendations for one to get (preferably
on the cheaper side) or where to get one I'd appreciate it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:16:21 -0700
From: "Sam Stoney" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Husaberg engines

...somebody asked about the reliability of the Husaberg in a RR
application:

I Took the chance a few years ago and bought a Husaberg FE600 (1994), put a
ZX7 front end on it, lowered the rear and roadraced it for a season in the
NW. The only problems Ihad with it were top speed - both tracks have long
dragstrip straightaways, and the H-berg is not all that aerodynamic. Still,
it was pretty easy to finish top 3; I just couldn't beat the 20k Tigcrafts
and 30k Supermono. I took it off the track when I realized that it would
take a lot of money or time to compete with those bikes on tracks that
reward horsepower so well.

The motor was perfect. It has a close ratio tranny that is flawless, and
with the B racing cam makes an honest 60hp. I ran 50 wt Red Line oil and
changed it every weekend - it only takes a quart. You do have to tighten
every fastener on a regular basis - it vibrates a lot

I tore it down last winter, after one year of RR and 2 years of dirt. The
piston is scuffed; that's about it. 

The motor is -tiny- 60 Lbs wet.
I just swapped it for a BMW. A friend wanted it to race in Supermotard up
in Seattle and I wasn't riding it. 

Sam 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:46:27 -0700
From: eric sherrer 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers

My two cents on racing thumpers....

 I have seen piston speeds over the "rule of thumb" maximum of 4500 
ft/min but you trade HP for reliability. In addition, the big 
displacement singles usually have a low rod ratio which makes the motor 
short and easily packaged but the piston/wall friction rises rapidly 
with rpm. I've also ran into cam chain problems at revs over factory 
redline (chains make great high speed saw blades). As far as the 
Husaberg goes, there was one that was mounted in an aluminum TZ frame 
that used to run at Sears Point. I remember the rider complaining about 
vibration and the owner complaining about broken motor mounts. Aluminum 
does have a finite fatigue life...I would suggest a steel frame.

Regards, Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:29:00 -0500
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Subject: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

- -> Does anyone know of a site or mailing group for those interested in
- -> RE5 Suzuki rotaries ??  I've had alook thru the normal sites

 No, but I've always liked them.  Between the RE5 and the Water Buffalo,
Suzuki's styling was often... unique.  Then came the Katanas, which were
almost universally hated when they came out, though now the most sport
bikes resemble them.

 Hercules built the first Wankel bikes, using Sachs industrial engines,
if I remember right.
                                                                                            

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #743
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst       Saturday, August 29 1998       Volume 01 : Number 744



 1. Andrew King  Subj: MC-Chassis Re: single carb vs: twin carb (plus side cover content)
 2. David Weinshenker   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Re: single carb vs: twin carb (plus side cover content)
 3. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 4. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: MC-Chassis winter project?
 5. bc180@freenet.carleton.ca (Peter Alan Engelbert) Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 6. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.
 7. "Max Hall"           Subj: MC-Chassis I have to sign off for a while
 8. "Michael Moore"   Subj: MC-Chassis Re: New front end

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:25:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew King 
Subject: MC-Chassis Re: single carb vs: twin carb (plus side cover content)

>From what I recall of my engine design class (1981?) the main idea behind
the twin carb/ single cylinder was that the secondary carb would be
positioned off center favoring one port.
At low throttle the primary carb would feed both ports, at higher openings
the offset second carb would feed mainly into one side increaseing the
turbulance in the cylinder. 
I was amused to see that the XT600 I just got has 1 1/2 carbs, (two carbs,
one float bowl). Got to get it back into street trim.
If anyone has the shop manual I'd like to hear from you.
And yes indeed I NEED A SIDE COVER.
The left one to be precise. Actually since the bike has spent most of it's
life in the dirt the missing side cover is not the only blemish on an
otherwise concours quality bike...
Still I would like to find one.
I have decided to stay with the 21 inch front, I was researching rims and
hubs, spokes and labor when my brother mentioned that he had a Metzler
Sahara 21 inch. So inertia rules, I won't be putting that sticky race
compound on. Of course I won't be racing either..


Andrew King  king@charlie.iit.edu
IIT Physics, Chicago  312-567-3021
technology is the answer, what was the question?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:40:57 -0700
From: David Weinshenker 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Re: single carb vs: twin carb (plus side cover content)

Andrew King wrote:
> I have decided to stay with the 21 inch front, I was researching rims and
> hubs, spokes and labor when my brother mentioned that he had a Metzler
> Sahara 21 inch. So inertia rules, I won't be putting that sticky race
> compound on. Of course I won't be racing either..

Metzeler also has the ME-33 Lazer in 80x21 and 90x21 if you want
more of a "pure street" tire.

- -dave w

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:04:16 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

>  Hercules built the first Wankel bikes, using Sachs industrial engines,
> if I remember right.

I think the Roto Gannet predated the RE5.

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:26:04 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: MC-Chassis winter project?

from RR world: http://www.roadracingworld.com/


1990 Honda RS250R frame, swingarm and shock, $500 OBO. Honda FT500 
Single parts. $5-$250. Call Kurt evenings (520) 544-2512.
(AZ) 
______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:00:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: bc180@freenet.carleton.ca (Peter Alan Engelbert)
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

>
>>  Hercules built the first Wankel bikes, using Sachs industrial engines,
>> if I remember right.
>
>I think the Roto Gannet predated the RE5.
>
>Cheers,
>Michael 
>Michael Moore

Ah yes, that would be the one with the dual overhead muffler bearings and
the counter rotating clutch bezel. Very clever design that. 

- --
Peter Engelbert: bc180@Freenet.Carleton.CA  or engelbp@mczcr.gov.on.ca
Vintage Road Racing: it's never too late to have a happy childhood. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:17:10 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Suzuki RE5 Rotaries.

> >I think the Roto Gannet predated the RE5.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Michael 

> 
> Ah yes, that would be the one with the dual overhead muffler bearings and
> the counter rotating clutch bezel. Very clever design that. 
> 
> --
Hello Peter,

No, I think that was something else.  The Roto Gannet was built (at 
least one) by Gannet Motors in England and used an NSU Wankel engine. 
It was featured in Cycle or Cycle World about 1971 or 1972.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:26:13 -0400
From: "Max Hall" 
Subject: MC-Chassis I have to sign off for a while

MC-Chassis correspondents,

I have really enjoyed my months on this list. You represent an amazingly
powerful body of knowledge, and I have appreciated being a part of it.
However, as the academic year goes from idle to redline (which it does
quickly) I have to apply greater focus to my teaching, so I am going to sign
off for a while.

Please keep watching the tilt-trike's progress from
www.maxmatic.com/electcar.htm .  I am always email-able from there.

- -Max Hall
- -maxo@iname.com
- -Plywood Guy, Scooters, a tilting electric three-wheeler and what-all:
http://www.maxmatic.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:18:18 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Re: New front end

> Michael, thanks for your response. The distance measured as you
> specified is 2.00inches on the old triples, and 1.25 inches on the new
> triple clamps. Will this have much effect on handling other than
> shortening the wheelbase(current wheelbase is 59.3 inches), since the
> stem angle will be the same or close to the same? Thanks -Tom

Hello Tom,

You've got a fair difference in the offsets, but unless my mental 
image is incorrect the reduction in wheel diameter will tend to 
reduce the trail, where the shorter offset would tend to increase it. 
Therefore, it may not be too terribly different overall when 
everything balances out.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #744
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst        Monday, August 31 1998        Volume 01 : Number 745



 1. Ian Drysdale      Subj: Re: MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #744
 2. "Ray or Emily Brooks"  Subj: MC-Chassis FS Spam
 3. "Ray or Emily Brooks"  Subj: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd
 4. Andrew King  Subj: MC-Chassis Re: 21 inch tires for XT600
 5. "Michael Moore"   Subj: MC-Chassis Taylor sheet-metal engine article
 6. GD             Subj: MC-Chassis Math Software?
 7. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?
 8. "Richard Schwaninger"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?
 9. dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subj: MC-Chassis Math Software?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:02:16 +1000
From: Ian Drysdale 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #744

> No, I think that was something else.  The Roto Gannet was built (at
> least one) by Gannet Motors in England and used an NSU Wankel engine.
> It was featured in Cycle or Cycle World about 1971 or 1972.

Did anyone ever see the Honda experimental rotary ?

It was a SL 100 ( or similar ) with a tiny rotary block mounted
above the cases driving down thru the' base gasket' via the
cam chain - I imagine using a dummy crank to drive the normal
gearbox.  Very cute.

IMHO the RE 5 is a very well proportioned motor - a very
'masculine' looking device.  The whole bike styling may have
been an aquired taste ( particularly the dunny roll instrument
version ) but still a pity they didn't catch on.

I have always had a lot of respect for Mazda with the way
they stuck with the rotary thru the good times and bad.

Cheers   IAN
- --
Ian Drysdale

DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
Melbourne. Australia
http://werple.net.au/~iwd
Ph. + 613 9562 4260
Fax.+ 613 9546 8938

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:52:30 -0400
From: "Ray or Emily Brooks" 
Subject: MC-Chassis FS Spam

I have a 96 or newer GSXR Airtech  superbike tail for sale. New never
mounted or painted. $125.00 plus shipping. I was going to use it on the
Goldberg 250 but it sticks out beyond the rear tire about 10 inches!!!  Uh
oh.. 

Ray

- ----------
> From: Gary Beale 
> To: mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: MC-Chassis thumper racers
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 10:02 AM
> 
> 
> 
> >Michael,
> >  How reliable was the Husky 510 RR bike you built?? In theory the two
> >stroke based four stroke should make a light and compact powerplant. I
> >can't decide if the higher sustained revs of roadracing would help the
oil
> >flow to avoid oiling problems or make the wear worse from higher surface
> >speeds of the rubbing bits.
> >
> >Ray
> >
> 
> I've corresponded with Dale Lineaweaver of L&R Racing Products, who I
> believe is the US importer, and builds a lot of dirt track racing
Husabergs.
> He says the Husaberg engines have proven reliable in both off road and
dirt
> track racing, but are fairly unproven in road racing.  Other sources tell
me
> that the transmissions sometimes break under hard use.  Older Husabergs
have
> only "splash" oiling systems.  Around '95 or '96 an oiling system was
> installed primarily to be able to offer an oil filtration system.
> 
> On the plus side, Husaberg engines offer the best power to weight ratio
of
> anything commercially available, and are very compact.  They should be
able
> to equal the power of a Rotax without as much modification, and are
readily
> available from Dale Lineweaver at:
> 
> Email:                               HSBG4ME@AOL.COM
> phone / fax:                        510 223-9052
> 
> Gary Beale
> gbeale@atlanta.dg.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:54:56 -0400
From: "Ray or Emily Brooks" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd

I need to buy a tach for a mx engine and need user testimoanials { :-)  

Ray

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:22:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew King 
Subject: MC-Chassis Re: 21 inch tires for XT600

I must confess that even though the lazer is probably a better choice for
street riding I will probably go with the Sahara.
Even worse I must admit the influence of style in the decision...
This bike has spent most of it's life in the dirt and looks the part.
I figure that while dents and dirt on a street bike bespeak neglect the
same blemishes on a dual sport bespeak rugged outdoors type behavior.
That and the offer of a free front tire make the decision easy...
What I should do is get a second set of wheels and put the lazers on them
along with a smaller rear sprocket. Right after I get the Clark 4 gallon
tank (for $150)....
Right now I just want to get it on the road.

> From: David Weinshenker 
> 
> Metzeler also has the ME-33 Lazer in 80x21 and 90x21 if you want
> more of a "pure street" tire.
> - -dave w
> 
> ------------------------------

Andrew King  king@charlie.iit.edu
IIT Physics, Chicago  312-567-3021
technology is the answer, what was the question?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:05:28 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Taylor sheet-metal engine article

I've just uploaded an article from "Hot Rod" magazine on one of 
Taylor's later engine projects.  You'll find it in the "engine stuff"
section of the first graphics page on my web site.

I scanned this to a larger size as I was working from a dark 
photocopy of the original article, so each page is about 250K.  They
did come out pretty legible and you should be able to get a fair
number of details from it.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:42:29 -0700
From: GD 
Subject: MC-Chassis Math Software?

    I am looking for a good software
program to write formulas with..  I
am looking for something that will
allow me to change any entry and
rerun the formula without completely
rewriting the hole formula.  It
would be nice if there was a
shareware program but that is
probably just a dream.

Thanks

GD

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:47:44 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?

>     I am looking for a good software program to write formulas
> with..  I am looking for something that will allow me to change any
> entry and rerun the formula without completely rewriting the hole
> formula.  It would be nice if there was a shareware program but that
> is probably just a dream. 

Hello Gary,

What is wrong with a good spreadsheet program?  That should handle 
most standard algebraic formulae, though won't be the thing if you 
are planning on getting into calculus.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 05:22:41 -0700
From: "Richard Schwaninger" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?

Mathcad works very well.

Richard


On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:42:29 -0700, GD wrote:

>    I am looking for a good software
>program to write formulas with..  I
>am looking for something that will
>allow me to change any entry and
>rerun the formula without completely
>rewriting the hole formula.  It
>would be nice if there was a
>shareware program but that is
>probably just a dream.
>
>Thanks
>
>GD
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:39:00 -0500
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Subject: MC-Chassis Math Software?

- -> I am looking for a good software
- -> program to write formulas with..  I
- -> am looking for something that will
- -> allow me to change any entry and
- -> rerun the formula without completely
- -> rewriting the hole formula.  It

 What you're looking for is called a "spreadsheet".  Typical examples
are Lotus 123 and Excel.
                                                                                                                      

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #745
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst       Tuesday, September 1 1998       Volume 01 : Number 746



 1. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?
 2. JBAKER1@aol.com                      Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?
 3. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: MC-Chassis woods-rotax RR bikes
 4. Marty Maclean     Subj: MC-Chassis Electric valves
 5. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis woods-rotax RR bikes
 6. Mitch Casto   Subj: MC-Chassis Look Mom  No Cam! Electric valves
 7. bob green   Subj: [none]
 8. "Glenn Thomson"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd
 9. bob green   Subj: MC-Chassis RR Rotax and Ducatis
10. bob green   Subj: MC-Chassis CAD software
11. "Gary Beale"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd
12. "Gary Beale"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis woods-rotax RR bikes
13. les               Subj: Re: MC-Chassis CAD software
14. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: Re: MC-Chassis CAD software
15. "joel"             Subj: RE: MC-Chassis CAD software

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:07:28 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?

There is a very nice scientific calculator app as part of Macintosh
System Seven.  This program allows easy editing and Graphic
capabilities with the results.
I have been trying to find it's equal as shareware for over a year,
and have found nothing for less than $100.  I think it would be great
for kid of all ages.

Regards

Calvin Grandy

- ----------
> From: Dave Williams 
> To: mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> Subject: MC-Chassis Math Software?
> Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 10:39 AM
> 
> 
> -> I am looking for a good software
> -> program to write formulas with..  I
> -> am looking for something that will
> -> allow me to change any entry and
> -> rerun the formula without completely
> -> rewriting the hole formula.  It
> 
>  What you're looking for is called a "spreadsheet".  Typical
examples
> are Lotus 123 and Excel.
>                                                                    
                                                  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:50:16 EDT
From: JBAKER1@aol.com
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Math Software?

Mathcad is an excellent program which does all you describe and more. If you
enter formula and a data range it will plot it for you, do differentiation and
integration on formulas for and then plot that data. This only touches the
surface of this program. 
Mathcad 7 Product Support  is a url which should get you into a website of
mathcad and their products.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:41:33 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: MC-Chassis woods-rotax RR bikes

The Wood-Rotax and Ducati SOS racers are often spoken of as 
undefeatable, their owners having bought a race win. I've had the 
opportunity to look (albiet not carefeully) at the woods-rotax bike and 
the frame really didn't look all that imposing. The Duc seems like it 
might be a touch heavy with that 1/2 888 motor. 
Are there hidden benefits to either?
______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:48:20 -0700
From: Marty Maclean 
Subject: MC-Chassis Electric valves

Slightly off the subject, but likely of interest to a few of you...

Mercedes is going to be putting solenoid operated valve train into
production within a few years. Current tests are on a V-8 and use a 42
volt operating system. As well, a 'dry' cyl head is being tried in which
the valve guides carry self-lubricating sleeves and receive no oil. 

Also, they are playing with ceramic valves - doable as the electronic
actuators can be programmed to create a 'soft landing' against the valve
seat.

Though you might find that interesting...


Marty

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:48:29 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis woods-rotax RR bikes

> The Wood-Rotax and Ducati SOS racers are often spoken of as 
> undefeatable, their owners having bought a race win. I've had the 
> opportunity to look (albiet not carefeully) at the woods-rotax bike and 
> the frame really didn't look all that imposing. The Duc seems like it 
> might be a touch heavy with that 1/2 888 motor. 
> Are there hidden benefits to either?

Hello Yousuf,

The Woods frame is a nicely done conventional frame.  The big 
advantage seems to be paying RW about $10-14K in pure profit, near as I 
can see (and being very generous on the parts pricing).

The Ducati is heavy compared to a Husaberg/Husky (but the Rotax is
probably even heavier).  It does have some advantges in having had a
factory development program, though it sounds like the Ducati
factory may not have SuperMono customer support as their highest
priority.

The Ducati looks like the better deal to me, if you could afford it.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:25:22 -0400
From: Mitch Casto 
Subject: MC-Chassis Look Mom  No Cam! Electric valves

Hi Marty,

I have been seeing various reports like this for years now, does it look
like they are really going to do this? What's your source? Seems like the
last I heard of this last tied to pneumatically controlled valves by Formula
One designers.

mitch

mitch

Marty Maclean wrote:

> Slightly off the subject, but likely of interest to a few of you...
>
> Mercedes is going to be putting solenoid operated valve train into
> production within a few years. Current tests are on a V-8 and use a 42
> volt operating system. As well, a 'dry' cyl head is being tried in which
> the valve guides carry self-lubricating sleeves and receive no oil.
>
> Also, they are playing with ceramic valves - doable as the electronic
> actuators can be programmed to create a 'soft landing' against the valve
> seat.
>
> Though you might find that interesting...
>
> Marty

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:53:09 +0100
From: bob green 
Subject: [none]

>>I need to buy a tach for a mx engine and need user >>testimoanials { :-)  
>>Ray

Ray;
I have been using an Elliot Tacho on a Husaberg road racer, which replaced a Scitsu. It has been fine and has a well damped (readable !!) movement.

They concentrate mostly on the car world but are very helpful. They also offer an unlimited warranty which for Racers covers crash damage !!!:) I have mislaid their address but from memory they are based in Leicester, England. 
Check out:
http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/gilera/elliot.htm

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:08:26 +0000
From: "Glenn Thomson" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd

On 30 Aug 98, Ray or Emily Brooks wrote:

> I need to buy a tach for a mx engine and need user testimoanials { :-)  
> 

I saw something that looked about the size of a digital bike speedo 
in a recent Dennis Kirk catalogue.  No info on refresh rates, etc.  
All the usual objections to digital instruments apply, of course.  I 
seem to remember it sold for ~ $60.

Cheers,

Glenn
gthomson(at)bserv.com
   Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:14:37 +0100
From: bob green 
Subject: MC-Chassis RR Rotax and Ducatis

>>The Wood-Rotax and Ducati SOS racers are often spoken of as 
>>undefeatable, their owners having bought a race win...

Hi Yousuf,

I'd say that both the Ducati and the Rotax are past their sell by date in singles racing. My Husaberg will outdrag 640 Rotaxes and Supermonos on the 1/4 mile Revett straight (good name for a long straight eh?) at Snetterton. If you want to be undefeatable, how about an OVER ? Nice oval alloy. Nice price.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:59:53 +0100
From: bob green 
Subject: MC-Chassis CAD software

Hello everyone, I'd appreciate any recommendations for CAD software packages. I'm a novice in this area so ease of use is a high priority.

Thanks
Bob Green.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:29:22 -0400
From: "Gary Beale" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd

Hi Ray.  Mark Hatten uses an Autometer that is intended for Briggs and
Stratton drag racing, which he got from Jegs.  Apparently it must be mounted
in foam rubber or else it breaks often.  I think he has a shell from a
larger tach lined with foam rubber, and the smaller tach secured into it.  I
think it lists for around $90.

I've used one of those digital kart tachs (on a kart) and found them not
very useable.  OTOH, the head temp feature was pretty useful.

Gary Beale
gbeale@atlanta.dg.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ray or Emily Brooks 
To: mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com 
Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 10:57 AM
Subject: MC-Chassis Tach recommendations wtd


>I need to buy a tach for a mx engine and need user testimoanials { :-)
>
>Ray
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:53:08 -0400
From: "Gary Beale" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis woods-rotax RR bikes

>The Wood-Rotax and Ducati SOS racers are often spoken of as
>undefeatable, their owners having bought a race win. I've had the
>opportunity to look (albiet not carefeully) at the woods-rotax bike and
>the frame really didn't look all that imposing. The Duc seems like it
>might be a touch heavy with that 1/2 888 motor.
>Are there hidden benefits to either?
>______________________________________________________
>Yousuf
>WMMRA 935
>FZR 400/600

I suppose one thing you get out with a WR or Supermono is a significant
degree of development.  You may well be able to build a lighter or stiffer
(or both!) chassis, and equip it with as good or better components, but you
would be developing the bike from scratch.  If you are clever you will be
close on your initial suspension settings, and no major parts will fall off.
But you can still expect a long first season of sorting out suspension,
remounting controls/bodywork/etc. where the initial approach isn't working,
and so on.   DNF's will not be unfamiliar.

Once the bike is sorted, and if you have a good rider on board, you can then
find out if your design and powerplant are truly better than the presently
available options.

I'm not claiming here that a Woods/Rotax is well sorted as delivered, only
pointing out that building a racer from scratch and getting it competitive
is a big job.

Gary Beale
gbeale@atlanta.dg.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:31:38 +0800
From: les 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis CAD software

Bob,

To save Tony the trouble of replying (he must be making great strides
with QT these days, he's so quiet), paper napkin (r1.00) and lead pencil
(r1.x) spring instantly to mind 

bob green wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I'd appreciate any recommendations for CAD software packages. I'm a novice in this area so ease of use is a high priority.
> 
> Thanks
> Bob Green.

- -- 
ATB, Les

"Eye pierce heaven, foot stuck in mud"
URL: http://www.inside.com.tw/user/les/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:17:21 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis CAD software

Ease of use is a little hard for me to judge 'cause I thought AutoCAD was easy enough to pick up. A nice 3d modeling/CAD tool is Rhino: 
http://www.rhino3d.com
It has several nice features that include:
1) ITS A FREE DOWNLOAD!!! (It's beta, but I haven't had any problems)
2) Combines some AutoCAD and 3Dstudio functionality (no animation though)
3) Fairly good online help and tutorials

If you are after just 2d modeling than I'm afraid that I have less experience, but AutoCAD LT is fairly straight forward and as a bonus any 
of the skill you pick up will translate to AutoCAD 14 (or whatever they end up at). 
Also your local community collage may offer CAD classes that will allow you to learn and pick up a student priced CAD package.

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, bob green  wrote:
>Hello everyone, I'd appreciate any recommendations for CAD software packages. I'm a novice in this area so ease of use is a high priority.
>
>Thanks
>Bob Green.
>
______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:55:03 -0400
From: "joel" 
Subject: RE: MC-Chassis CAD software

There are many CAD programs out there,  and they all have progressively
become easier to use over the past couple of years.
AutoCAD 14 is one of the best consumer CAD programs, but it can be a little
daunting to use if you have no experience with this type of program.
There is a program called TurboCAD by the company IMSI, which is quite
straight forward and fairly easy to use.
AutoCad LT would be a good choice if you plan on moving up to AutoCAD 14,
as it's more or less a simplified version of AC 14.
  Rergards,  Joel 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of bob green
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 9.00 AM
> To: 'chassis'
> Subject: MC-Chassis CAD software
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, I'd appreciate any recommendations for CAD 
> software packages. I'm a novice in this area so ease of use is a 
> high priority.
> 
> Thanks
> Bob Green.
> 
> 

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #746
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst      Wednesday, September 2 1998      Volume 01 : Number 747



 1. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: MC-Chassis Gas tanks
 2. "john.mead"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis CAD software
 3. "john.mead"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Gas tanks
 4. Alan Lapp  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Gas tanks
 5. Bob Schnick    Subj: MC-Chassis Kent White aka The Tinman metal working training videos
 6. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: MC-Chassis YZF R6
 7. Marty Maclean     Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Look Mom  No Cam! Electric valves
 8. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis helpers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:07:44 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: MC-Chassis Gas tanks

Whence building a gas tank for a special would a bladder style w/ a 
composite shell be a viable alternative to welding one up?
It seems like it should be lighter and just as safe. Any thoughts?

______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:57:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "john.mead" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis CAD software

AutoCAD also costs more than $3,000.  I have it at work and use it for my
MC projects but would not buy it.

John Mead

- ----------
> There are many CAD programs out there,  and they all have progressively
> become easier to use over the past couple of years.
> AutoCAD 14 is one of the best consumer CAD programs, but it can be a little
> daunting to use if you have no experience with this type of program.
> There is a program called TurboCAD by the company IMSI, which is quite
> straight forward and fairly easy to use.
> AutoCad LT would be a good choice if you plan on moving up to AutoCAD 14,
> as it's more or less a simplified version of AC 14.
>   Rergards,  Joel
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> > [mailto:owner-mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of bob green
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 9.00 AM
> > To: 'chassis'
> > Subject: MC-Chassis CAD software
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone, I'd appreciate any recommendations for CAD
> > software packages. I'm a novice in this area so ease of use is a
> > high priority.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Green.
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "john.mead" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Gas tanks

One problem my be in connecting the petcocks to the blatter so you would
be able to turn them on and off without the bladder flexing too much.  Also,
you may have to insert foam rubber into the tank to take care of surging
fuel on braking.

John Mead

- ----------
>
> Whence building a gas tank for a special would a bladder style w/ a
> composite shell be a viable alternative to welding one up?
> It seems like it should be lighter and just as safe. Any thoughts?
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Yousuf
> WMMRA 935
> FZR 400/600
>
> 	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo
> 	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian
> ______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:13:54 +0100
From: Alan Lapp 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Gas tanks

>Whence building a gas tank for a special would a bladder style w/ a
>composite shell be a viable alternative to welding one up?
>It seems like it should be lighter and just as safe. Any thoughts?

In the RC world of many years ago, it was common to use bladder tanks to
provide pressurized fuel to the carb.  It would be interesting to see how
that would work on a MC - perhaps with a regulator, the fuel pump could be
eliminated.

Al
level_5_ltd@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:15:29 -0400
From: Bob Schnick 
Subject: MC-Chassis Kent White aka The Tinman metal working training videos

I was on the Tinman's site the other day and  requested his catalog from:
, in the catalog
was an explaination of training videos that he has planned to film.

This is a description of one of the videos:

"Planned for shooting"
"Aircraft Chromemoly, ASTM 4130
Skills taught by two veteran craftsmen, one with 27 fusellages to his
credit. Tube structures are the goal here with detailed coverage of measuring,
cutting, joint fitting, spar replacement, tacking, and distortion control.
Also includes pre-heat and post-heat stress relief along with filler metals"

I don't know when this catalog was printed so maybe it's done.

His Web site's homepage is:
.

He has done some really amazing work and displays some of it in the gallery
section
of his site. He's a master sheet metal worker. That's the understatement of
the year.

I recently joined (in lurk mode) the digest of this list. I'd include some
bio here
but I don't think it's all that pertinent because this list has some very
experienced hands
and I'm just learning. I'll just say I'm a retired federal (DOD) civil
servant living in Lewes, Delaware with much more time than money on my
hands.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:31:36 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: MC-Chassis YZF R6

Ladies and Gentlemen (and especially Yamaha fans) the new 600 has 
arrived in press release form. Here in motorcycle online's take:

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcyam/99r6.html

______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:33:37 -0700
From: Marty Maclean 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Look Mom  No Cam! Electric valves

Mitch Casto wrote:
> 
> Hi Marty,
> 
> I have been seeing various reports like this for years now, does it look
> like they are really going to do this? What's your source? Seems like the
> last I heard of this last tied to pneumatically controlled valves by Formula
> One designers.
> 
> mitch
The article and a photo were in a recent auto industry circular. I'm
aware of examples of this sort of thing - pneumatic & electronic - being
fooled with for at least 30 years - but what I thought interesting on
this one is that they're actually stating a time-frame for production.
One of the thinkgs that looks to be helping this become a reality is the
use of a 42V vehicle power system (something that is likely to occur
industry-wide over the next sevral years)- the higher voltage allows
smaller components and lower current requirements.
> >
> > Marty

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:11:15 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis helpers

> I recently joined (in lurk mode) the digest of this list. I'd
> include some bio here but I don't think it's all that pertinent
> because this list has some very experienced hands and I'm just
> learning. I'll just say I'm a retired federal (DOD) civil servant
> living in Lewes, Delaware with much more time than money on my
> hands. 

And I'll mention that Bob has been kind enough to take over compiling 
the chassis list digests into HTML form for me to post on the 
website.  That makes this list the only one of the 6 I host that has 
current archives for you to use.  I hope you appreciate his efforts 
as much as I do!

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #747
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst      Thursday, September 3 1998      Volume 01 : Number 748



 1. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Look Mom  No Cam! Electric valves
 2. GD             Subj: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
 3. "Michael Moore"   Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
 4. "Thacker, Heath HW"  Subj: MC-Chassis Ground Clearance - '88 GSXR750J.
 5. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
 6. Ian Drysdale      Subj: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .
 7. Alan Lapp  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .
 8. Ian Drysdale      Subj: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.
 9. jpanstr@ravenet.com (John Anstreicher) Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .
10. Marty Maclean     Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .
11. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.
12. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:11:15 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Look Mom  No Cam! Electric valves

> > last I heard of this last tied to pneumatically controlled valves by Formula
> > One designers.

Last night Craig was telling me of a recent article on some F1 
engines, and he said one team running pneumatic valve springs is 
lifting the valves 17mm at 16000 rpm.

Pretty amazing stuff.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:56:28 -0700
From: GD 
Subject: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

   Wow that is almost .670" that is amazing.  Where did he read it?  There was  a good article in
this months Road & Track about Formula One engines.  They talked about casting aluminum at 15000
PSI in a inert gas.  That way there was no porosity and it was much stronger.
                                                                                 GD

Michael Moore wrote:

> > > last I heard of this last tied to pneumatically controlled valves by Formula
> > > One designers.
>
> Last night Craig was telling me of a recent article on some F1
> engines, and he said one team running pneumatic valve springs is
> lifting the valves 17mm at 16000 rpm.
>
> Pretty amazing stuff.
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
> Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:05:27 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

>    Wow that is almost .670" that is amazing.  Where did he read
> it?  There was  a good article in this months Road & Track about
> Formula One engines.  They talked about casting aluminum at 15000
> PSI in a inert gas.  That way there was no porosity and it was
> much stronger. 

Hello Gary,

It was in one of the two "racecar engineering" magazines.  I think 
Craig gets both of them so I'm never quite sure which one he was 
referring to.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:20:59 +1000 
From: "Thacker, Heath HW" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Ground Clearance - '88 GSXR750J.

Thanks to everyone to replied to my original post, re:- lack of lean
angle ground clearance on an '88 GSXR750J.

My trackday the weekend before last, was rained out.  I still road & had
a ball, but due to the wet weather, a lack of ground clearance wasn't a
problem.

The only non-power induced slide I had was a very big (not so
controlled) two wheel slide.  Both wheels drifted equally.  I think this
was due mostly to the fact that I was running a Brigstone BT58R front &
a stickier Dunlop D207GP on the rear.  I think I'll try a set of 207's
next time, I'd much prefer the rear sliding before the front let go.

I've got another track day this weekend, hopefully the weather will be
better.  (but I'm stuck with the same tyres for this ride day.)

Thanks again,
Heath.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:49:31 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

Although the lift may be less than these examples, the data page on
the new 600 Yamaha indicates an impressive 15000 RPM Red Line.  With
steel springs!

Regards


Calvin Grandy

- ----------
> >    Wow that is almost .670" that is amazing. 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:09:00 +1000
From: Ian Drysdale 
Subject: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .

> In the RC world of many years ago, it was common to use bladder tanks to
> provide pressurized fuel to the carb.



Are you on the right track ?  Bladders can be used 2 ways - put the
fuel inside them so the container doesn't have to be watertight or
used inside the container ( just air inside ) to pressurize the liquid.

The former is good in fibre reinforced resin tanks ( I had a Bultaco
tank that nearly drove me up the wall trying to stop leaks ) and an
example of the second is my 2WD - I used an accumlater bladder
to pressurize the oil tank to stop the pump cavitating if the bike fell
over.



> use of a 42V vehicle power system



This a typo ?  I've never heard of 42 V - 24 V is common in European
trucks and in industrial control systems as well as wheelchairs etc.
No reason you can't have 42 V - but then why not 100 V ??

Cheers   IAN

- --
Ian Drysdale

DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
Melbourne. Australia
http://werple.net.au/~iwd
Ph. + 613 9562 4260
Fax.+ 613 9546 8938

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:33:56 +0100
From: Alan Lapp 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .

>> In the RC world of many years ago, it was common to use bladder tanks to
>> provide pressurized fuel to the carb.
>
>
>
>Are you on the right track ?  Bladders can be used 2 ways - put the
>fuel inside them so the container doesn't have to be watertight or
>used inside the container ( just air inside ) to pressurize the liquid.

Indeed - the RC (Radio Controlled Modelling - I 'prolly should have
specified that) type bladders I was referring to were sandwiched between
pieces of wood and compressed with rubber bands.

Al
level_5_ltd@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:51:14 +1000
From: Ian Drysdale 
Subject: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.

> Ladies and Gentlemen (and especially Yamaha fans) the new 600 has
> arrived in press release form. Here in motorcycle online's take:



Thanks for the lead - I knew it was on the way.  It's of particular
interest to me as the current YZF 600 head is the one I'm using on my
1000cc V8.

Here are my comments :
- - Yamaha seem to be following the same formula as present in that
   the 750/1000 is the same base motor and looking at the section
   drawing across the cylinder block I would say that current 400/600
   family motor group has been retained.  There isn't much room
   between the pistons.  I suspected they might use the 750/1000
   block for the 600 too - not out of the question as the Honda 600/
   900 Fireblade is the same motor but the Yam 600 is obviously
   much smaller.

- - Crank bearings up to 32mm is interesting - I am using 31.5 on the
   1000cc V8 - up from 30mm of the 750 -V8. ( & current 600 )

- - 37mm carbs !  Amazing - where will it end ?

- - the motor looks to be tiny - the current Yamaha motor is by far the
  smallest of the 600 motors and this one looks 10 - 20 % smaller
  in all dimensions ??

The interesting thing is that 750 Yamaha is still winning WSC races
 - not bad for a 15 year old design.  It will be embarrassing for Yamaha
if the new design can't do the same.  Not out of the question - the
Suzuki 750 was raved about but has had only one podium finish in
2 years.

Cheers  IAN

- --
Ian Drysdale

DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
Melbourne. Australia
http://werple.net.au/~iwd
Ph. + 613 9562 4260
Fax.+ 613 9546 8938

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:58:55 -0400
From: jpanstr@ravenet.com (John Anstreicher)
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .

Ian:

    Why not 100 volts?  Because its not safe.
It is too easy for a 100 volt DC potential to overcome human
skin resistance and shock someone silly.  I have never heard
of 42 volts either, but it would be effective in reducing currents.
42 volts will require 18 or 20 lead acid cells, but as you increase
the number, the odds of a single cell's failure taking out the whole
battery system increase.  

    See ya.                                                                JPA

- ----------
> From: Ian Drysdale 

> This a typo ?  I've never heard of 42 V - 24 V is common in European
> trucks and in industrial control systems as well as wheelchairs etc.
> No reason you can't have 42 V - but then why not 100 V ??
> 
> Cheers   IAN

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 08:10:41 -0700
From: Marty Maclean 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .

John Anstreicher wrote:
> 
> Ian:
> 
>     Why not 100 volts?  Because its not safe.
> It is too easy for a 100 volt DC potential to overcome human
> skin resistance and shock someone silly.  I have never heard
> of 42 volts either, but it would be effective in reducing currents.
> 42 volts will require 18 or 20 lead acid cells, but as you increase
> the number, the odds of a single cell's failure taking out the whole
> battery system increase.
> 
>     See ya.                                                                JPA
> 
> ----------
> > From: Ian Drysdale 
> 
> > This a typo ?  I've never heard of 42 V - 

No, it's not a typo. Thin plate batteries are in development and, for
automotive applications, are about the size of conventional motorcycle
batteries. Likely, again in auto applications, there will continue to be
a 12 volt, more or less conventional battery for the starter. For just
about everything else, the 42 volt convention allows smaller wiring,
components, etc. Why 42 over 24 or 48 or something else? I don't know
yet.

Marty

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 08:35:53 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.

>
>The interesting thing is that 750 Yamaha is still winning WSC races
> - not bad for a 15 year old design.  It will be embarrassing for Yamaha
>if the new design can't do the same.  Not out of the question - the
>Suzuki 750 was raved about but has had only one podium finish in
>2 years.
>
>Cheers  IAN
>
>--
>Ian Drysdale

Suzuki's doin' OK in US superbike, and in world it's whittam and goddard, 
remarkable men and racers, but I think Haga and Russell are probably 
better. Granted Haga is so fast on the YZF because 1) he's a bit loony, 
2) he's been racing the YZF forever.
Russel is doing not so good, he's shown he can still fly when the setup 
is right (or he is at Daytona), but he excuses himself complaining that 
he built his riding style around the ZX7 and the YZF is really differant. 
He even did better on the Suzuki GP bike. Oh well here is one Yamaha fan 
(and Russell fan) hoping they get it together and take home another 
championship.
Wouldn't it be neat if they made a new 400 with the same concept, or for 
that matter the SZR (600 single).
______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:43:12 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .

Alternate voltages have their merits.  Reduced wire size could allow
economies in mass construction. Perhaps the most direct advantage of
higher voltages to the motorcyclist would be some relief from poor
connections and voltage drops that lead to dimming and interruptions.

On this aspect, what favored "dressings" are used by list members to
combat corrosion at electrical junctions?  I like "NeverSeeze" in
small amounts and Vaseline as a generally clean material.  Both act
as lubricants, simplifying connects and disconnects.  For semi
permanent connections I use RTV applied over a made connection, with
shrink tubing contracted while the RTV is uncured if possible.

I regard to bladders, is there a method for the individual
constructor to make up a useful "Tank Liner"?  This may not be as
light weight as a good tank, but could provide useful options for
placement on alternative configuration machines.

Rubber fabrication and bonding appears a rather esoteric knowledge
that many could  use at times.   Selection of sheet material and
petroleum proof adhesives could be of interest.

Regards


Calvin Grandy
- ----------
> From: Marty Maclean 
> To: mc-chassis-design@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Bladders & 42 volts .
> Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 11:10 AM
> 
> John Anstreicher wrote:
> > 
> > Ian:
> > 
> >     Why not 100 volts?  Because its not safe.
> > It is too easy for a 100 volt DC potential to overcome human
> > skin resistance and shock someone silly.  I have never heard
> > of 42 volts either, but it would be effective in reducing
currents.
> > 42 volts will require 18 or 20 lead acid cells, but as you
increase
> > the number, the odds of a single cell's failure taking out the
whole
> > battery system increase.
> > 
> >     See ya.                                                      
         JPA
> > 
> > ----------
> > > From: Ian Drysdale 
> > 
> > > This a typo ?  I've never heard of 42 V - 
> 
> No, it's not a typo. Thin plate batteries are in development and,
for
> automotive applications, are about the size of conventional
motorcycle
> batteries. Likely, again in auto applications, there will continue
to be
> a 12 volt, more or less conventional battery for the starter. For
just
> about everything else, the 42 volt convention allows smaller
wiring,
> components, etc. Why 42 over 24 or 48 or something else? I don't
know
> yet.
> 
> Marty

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #748
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst       Friday, September 4 1998       Volume 01 : Number 749



 1. Julian Bond  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
 2. Julian Bond  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.
 3. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.
 4. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.
 5. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
 6. "Thomas Alberti"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
 7. Ian Drysdale      Subj: MC-Chassis Voltage
 8. "Ray or Emily Brooks"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.
 9. "Calvin Grandy"    Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!
10. Marty Maclean     Subj: Re: MC-Chassis Voltage
11. yhakim@m5.sprynet.com                Subj: MC-Chassis Bike powered cars

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:07:48 -0400
From: Julian Bond 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

In article <35EDE93C.8C18396D@ix.netcom.com>, GD 
writes
>   Wow that is almost .670" that is amazing.  Where did he read it?  There was  
>a good article in
>this months Road & Track about Formula One engines.  They talked about casting 
>aluminum at 15000
>PSI in a inert gas.  That way there was no porosity and it was much
stronger.

This month's Cycle World has two good Kevin Cameron articles. The first
is his usual Tech piece, this time about the difference between forged
and cast parts and how current casting techniques (under vacuum, and
under pressure) are producing pieces as strong as forgings.

The second is an analysis of the current state of the art in WSB. There
are some interesting views about the different approaches of
750-Straight 4, 750-V4 and 1000-V2 producing similar laptimes via
different means. They each cause chassis compromises that even out the
differences in design, despite Honda (and Ducati) out spending the
others.

Which brings me back to the original post. A 900-3 is allowed by the
specifications and is exactly 3 cylinders off a current Formula 1 3000cc
V10 engine. I wish somebody out there would produce one. Converted to
steel valve springs and with a small overbore, it would make a killer
street bike and potentially change the game in WSB. I understand WSB
allows the capacity to be enlarged a bit from the road bike. I wonder if
it also allows you to sleeve down the racer from the road bike. Would it
really be feasible to sell a 200 production run of air-spring bikes for
general road consumption?

- -- 
Julian Bond                            mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com
CN250/Helix/FF info & mailing list     http://www.shockwav.demon.co.uk
>8600 Bike Suppliers, Contacts & Addresses      http://www.bikeweb.com
                          > Extreme Control <

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:12:02 -0400
From: Julian Bond 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.

In article <199809031534.IAA00766@m5.sprynet.com>, yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
writes
>Wouldn't it be neat if they made a new 400 with the same concept, or for 
>that matter the SZR (600 single).

I'm sure they will, but for the Japanese home market only.

- -- 
Julian Bond                            mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com
CN250/Helix/FF info & mailing list     http://www.shockwav.demon.co.uk
>8600 Bike Suppliers, Contacts & Addresses      http://www.bikeweb.com
                          > Extreme Control <

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:42:19 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.

Could someone remail the information page URL for the new Yamaha 600?
 I have cleared the history, and now am being asked particulars by
one of my riding companions.

Regards

Calvin Grandy

> writes
> >Wouldn't it be neat if they made a new 400 with the same concept,
or for 
> >that matter the SZR (600 single).
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:10:44 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcyam/99r6.html

just http://www.motorcycle.com
will take you to motorcycle online which is a good source for info

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, "Calvin Grandy"  wrote:
>Could someone remail the information page URL for the new Yamaha 600?
> I have cleared the history, and now am being asked particulars by
>one of my riding companions.
>

______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:12:08 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

>Which brings me back to the original post. A 900-3 is allowed by the
>specifications and is exactly 3 cylinders off a current Formula 1 3000cc
>V10 engine. I wish somebody out there would produce one. Converted to
>steel valve springs and with a small overbore, it would make a killer
>street bike and potentially change the game in WSB. I understand WSB
>allows the capacity to be enlarged a bit from the road bike. I wonder if
>it also allows you to sleeve down the racer from the road bike. Would it
>really be feasible to sell a 200 production run of air-spring bikes for
>general road consumption?
>
>-- 
>Julian Bond                            mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com
>CN250/Helix/FF info & mailing list     http://www.shockwav.demon.co.uk
>>8600 Bike Suppliers, Contacts & Addresses      http://www.bikeweb.com
>                          > Extreme Control <


Does any one have Kenny Roberts number?
make mine yellow with black speed stripes and maybe a discreet signature.
______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:41:22 -0500
From: "Thomas Alberti" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

> 
> This month's Cycle World has two good Kevin Cameron articles. The first
> is his usual Tech piece, this time about the difference between forged
> and cast parts and how current casting techniques (under vacuum, and
> under pressure) are producing pieces as strong as forgings.


I disagree. Half of the beauty of forgings (properly designed) is that the
grain structure "flows" with the internal forces that will act on the part.

I contend that a casting can be no better than a part machined "from
billet", but no better. (Assuming no machining marks are present in the
machined part).

Thomas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:02:16 +1000
From: Ian Drysdale 
Subject: MC-Chassis Voltage

>     Why not 100 volts?  Because its not safe.
> It is too easy for a 100 volt DC potential to overcome human
> skin resistance and shock someone silly.



It does suprise me that this hasn't happened earlier - we had a
6 V truck on the farm when I was a kid and it was painful to
hear it turning over - must admit it started most of the time. If
12 v is good then 24 V will be better and ..........................

A local auto electrician used to make up 8 V baterries for old
6 V cars & trucks.  All the std. components were retained - he
tweaked the generater a bit somehow and at least you could see
where you were going at night.

Of course we can't believe that a country like the USA still
has 115 V as a standard ( we have 240 V ) - you must have to
shake the ergs out of a 20 ft extension lead.  I couldn't believe
the weight of a pistol drill when I picked it up when I was in
the states - ours are so much lighter for the same output.

Cheers   IAN



- --
Ian Drysdale

DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
Melbourne. Australia
http://werple.net.au/~iwd
Ph. + 613 9562 4260
Fax.+ 613 9546 8938

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:36:10 -0400
From: "Ray or Emily Brooks" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis New Yam 600.

.  Not out of the question - the
> >Suzuki 750 was raved about but has had only one podium finish in
> >2 years.
> >
> >Cheers  IAN
> >
> 

The fact that the Suzuki hasn't done well illustrates how high the level of
competition is at the very top. We wannabe's have fun trying to make our
bikes faster but when the Suzuki factory can't make it a winner then you
know what sort of resources Honda is expending.

Ray

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:12:23 -0400
From: "Calvin Grandy" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Formula One Engines!

- ----------
	I think we shall have to judge hard evidence.  Technology is a
wonderful thing, and none of us can keep up on all fronts.  I have
seen many published articles about the advancements in casting
methods over the past years, but remain skeptical for the same
reasons as you, Thomas.  Education and experience  does not let me
believe these claims.

  	In the argument that the characteristics of a casting can be no
better than a part machined from solid, we place two artificial
limits on the results.
The comparative "machined part is from our PRESENT selection of
materials, and that the casting provides performance no better than
these familiar materials.    High pressure, controlled atmosphere,
casting processes may provide materials that exceed our expectations
from forged parts using conventional materials and processes.
	The result could be "better", but not an apples to apples
comparison.  We live in a world of hybrids.  As more experience is
gained we can make the choices from our own understanding.

Regards

Calvin Grandy
> > 
> > This month's Cycle World has two good Kevin Cameron articles. The
first
> > is his usual Tech piece, this time about the difference between
forged
> > and cast parts and how current casting techniques (under vacuum,
and
> > under pressure) are producing pieces as strong as forgings.
> 
> 
> I disagree. Half of the beauty of forgings (properly designed) is
that the
> grain structure "flows" with the internal forces that will act on
the part.
> 
> I contend that a casting can be no better than a part machined
"from
> billet", but no better. (Assuming no machining marks are present in
the
> machined part).
> 
> Thomas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 07:04:35 -0700
From: Marty Maclean 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis Voltage

Ian Drysdale wrote:
> 

> 
> Of course we can't believe that a country like the USA still
> has 115 V as a standard ( we have 240 V ) - you must have to
> shake the ergs out of a 20 ft extension lead.  I couldn't believe
> the weight of a pistol drill when I picked it up when I was in
> the states - ours are so much lighter for the same output.
> 
> Cheers   IAN

We've also got the highest per capita rate of liability lawyers in the
world  - that would all like to get in on anything that involved
changing a standard and all the obvious resultant fall-out.

Marty

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:46:27 -0700
From: yhakim@m5.sprynet.com
Subject: MC-Chassis Bike powered cars

A while back there was a discussion of power plants for Tony's tilting 
trike. The Rocket was given as an example of a Bike powered car and if 
I remember correctly the assumption was that the power was transmitted 
via chain to the drive shafts. I know there are kits to turn shafties 
like the V max into chain drive. Is it feasible to do the opposite. For 
some reason I was thinking a FZR1000 powered MG would be entertaining. 

______________________________________________________
Yousuf
WMMRA 935
FZR 400/600

	"It's not my fault" - Han Solo				  
	"It's not my fault" - Lando Calrisian			
______________________________________________________  

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #749
******************************



MC-Chassis-Dgst       Sunday, September 6 1998       Volume 01 : Number 750



 1. bsags@isat.com (David Kath)          Subj: MC-Chassis Forkless hub steering
 2. batwings@i-plus.net                  Subj: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin
 3. "Ray or Emily Brooks"  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin
 4. "Michael Moore"   Subj: MC-Chassis Second call for T-shirt design voting
 5. batwings@i-plus.net                  Subj: Re: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:39:24 -0700
From: bsags@isat.com (David Kath)
Subject: MC-Chassis Forkless hub steering

Gents.. I recently picked up a Oct copy of "Sport Rider" magazine. There
is a very good article on the forkless, hub steering, 900 Duc powered
bike, built by Franco Romanelli. Perhaps some of you would enjoy reading
it. There are several "skin off" pictures showing some details of the
design. Facinating stuff...

Quotes from the article:
The bikes front suspension consists of an upper H-arm and lower trailing
links that are attached to an upright member, (much like a swing arm in
appearance, but mounted vertically) which holds the front wheel. The
layout of these components creates a parallelogram similiar to an upper
and lower A-arm setup on a car, but with the wheel cocked 90 degrees
from that convention. The geometry of the movement of this design
ensures that the wheelbase, and rake and trail of the bike remain
constant as the front end moves up and down over road
irregularities....The frame is basically an exoskeleton bolted to the
sides of the engine so that the suspension on each end has something
sustantial on which to be mounted.....
dave - NV

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:20:30
From: batwings@i-plus.net
Subject: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin

Need source of pistons 80 mm bore by 20mm pin by 39 mm deck hgt. These are
more specifically for big-boring Yam XS650 to 744cc. Would be glad to have
generics and/or flat topped, if more specialized units not available. If
anyone knows of the perfect piston for above in about 10:1 CR I would
especially like to hear from you. <=It will probably save me some machining.

Many thanks

Hoyt




Belfab CNC: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html 
Best MC Repair-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html 
Camping/Caving-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
  Last words => "Hey guys, watch this!" <= of a redneck

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:55:42 -0400
From: "Ray or Emily Brooks" 
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin

I know that Suzuki GS1100's are 80mm bore and are basically flattops with
four very small valve reliefs. I have a set of 700 V-twin Suzuki pistons in
my shed that are very similar to the GS1100 pistons. I will measure them
for you tomorrow. If the pins were smaller you could have the rods bushed.
If these pistons have the right deck height then I would use some
aftermarket piston as the Suzuki piston isn't intended for the longer
stroke of you application.

Ray

- ----------
> From: batwings@i-plus.net
> To: race@micapeak.com; mc-chassis-design-digest@list.sirius.com;
vintage-roadrace@list.sirius.com; vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com;
thumper@dorje.com; yam650@micapeak.com
> Subject: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin
> Date: Saturday, September 05, 1998 12:20 PM
> 
> Need source of pistons 80 mm bore by 20mm pin by 39 mm deck hgt. These
are
> more specifically for big-boring Yam XS650 to 744cc. Would be glad to
have
> generics and/or flat topped, if more specialized units not available. If
> anyone knows of the perfect piston for above in about 10:1 CR I would
> especially like to hear from you. <=It will probably save me some
machining.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Hoyt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belfab CNC: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html 
> Best MC Repair-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html 
> Camping/Caving-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
>   Last words => "Hey guys, watch this!" <= of a redneck
> 
>  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:55:49 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: MC-Chassis Second call for T-shirt design voting

I've received only about 20 votes since I sent out the first call, 
and I'm not sure if that quantity is quite enough to justify having 
shirts made up.

Here is a reminder:

Check out the different designs at the bottom of:
http://www.eurospares.com/graphics.htm

The designer of the shirt that is picked for printing (and I
anticipate we'll eventually print 2 or 3 of the designs as they are
all quite nice) will get their shirt for free, as well as all the
glory they can grab.  I'm hoping the shirts will be about US$15 each,
or a bit less, plus postage.  That will include a dollar or two per
shirt to go to the running-the-list fund. I'd also like to to have the
price on the shirt set to subsidize (in the spirit of list
camaraderie) to some degree the postage for those people on the list
who are outside the U.S.A..

Shirts will be pocket-less Hanes Beefy-T or better in quality.  I
loathe cheap T-shirts.

************************************
How the voting will be conducted:

The names of the designers are:

Ben Bennett
Bruce Brown
Jon Hose
Paul Kellner
Jeff Rozycki

Please rank all the designs from 1 (highest) to 5 (lowest).  Indicate
next to each name how many shirts of each design you would anticipate
wanting (remembering that only one design will be printed at first, so
you won't be needing to pony up for 5 times X number of shirts at
once), what color shirt you think the design would look best printed
on (or at least a general white vs colored indication), and the size
shirt you'd want.

So a sample ballot might be:

1Ben Bennett  3  white XL, XL, Small
2 Bruce Brown  3  white XL
3 Jon Hose 3  yellow XL
4 Paul Kellner 3  colored XL
5 Jeff Rozycki 3  white XL

Something along those lines would have Ben's shirt being printed
first, with decreasing priority down to Jeff's design (and keep in
mind this is just an example your ballot may vary, always wear a
helmet, preserve nature, . . .)

By ranking all the designs I should be able to get a good feel for the
next shirt to be printed in a hopefully long series of stunning
designer wear.  I'll also need the color/size (I think colors and XXL
shirts are a bit more expensive) number info for getting a quote on
the shirts.

PLEASE DON'T SEND THE RESPONSE TO THE LIST.

You can send it to me direct at:
mmoore@eurospares.com

Thanks,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 06:50:45
From: batwings@i-plus.net
Subject: Re: MC-Chassis 80 mm bore by 39 deck by 20mm pin

At 08:55 PM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I know that Suzuki GS1100's are 80mm bore and are basically flattops with
>four very small valve reliefs. I have a set of 700 V-twin Suzuki pistons in
>my shed that are very similar to the GS1100 pistons. I will measure them
>for you tomorrow. If the pins were smaller you could have the rods bushed.
>If these pistons have the right deck height then I would use some
>aftermarket piston as the Suzuki piston isn't intended for the longer
>stroke of you application.

Thanks, Ray. I will of course bush them myself if it needs done. I don't
however understand why the piston cares which stroke it's used with.

Best wishes,

Hoyt


Belfab CNC: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/belfab/belfab.html 
Best MC Repair-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/best.html 
Camping/Caving-  http://www.freeyellow.com/members/batwings/caving.html
  Last words => "Hey guys, watch this!" <= of a redneck

 

------------------------------

End of MC-Chassis-Dgst V1 #750
******************************



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